Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Ideas and suggestions for how to improve the Warzone 2100 base game only. Ideas for mods go in Mapping/Modding instead. Read sticky posts first!

Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Zarel » 05 Sep 2009, 01:51

The plasma cannon isn't a laser. It's a plasma cannon. It uses some laser technology, yes, but it's not a true laser.

Also, concentrated light beams don't have all that much range in atmosphere, either. Diffusion tends to ruin them at long distances. That's why heavy laser is also pretty low range.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby lav_coyote25 » 05 Sep 2009, 05:45

747 - how high does he fly - cause they just tested it - airborne laser system - and apparently had excellent result ... just sayin...
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Zarel » 05 Sep 2009, 06:58

lav_coyote25 wrote:747 - how high does he fly - cause they just tested it - airborne laser system - and apparently had excellent result ... just sayin...

1. It's intended to intercept missiles, not shoot stuff on the ground. It can't shoot stuff on the ground precisely because the atmosphere is too thick.

2. The results they were aiming for weren't "blow stuff up", but just "interfere with electronic systems". The EMP Cannon has plenty of range; go do that if that's what you're aiming for. :P

The 747 airborne laser doesn't contradict anything I just said; it does nothing but confirm it.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby lav_coyote25 » 05 Sep 2009, 09:14

they aint done yet... xD
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Kacen » 05 Sep 2009, 14:32

cheesepuffgd wrote:i think the plasma cannon is too much like a flamer. the lasers need to be more like machine guns. the only practical use of the plasma cannon would be on a vtol or cyborg where it could get close enough to kill effectively :ninja: and if lasers are thechnically concentrated light beams, shouldn't they have more range?

A plasma cannon isn't the same as a laser.

They're both energy weapons (and as such are categorized as thermal weapons in Warzone), but they don't work the same way. Lasers are concentrated light while plasma is superheated gas. If anything they're more similar to flamers than lasers as heat is their main way of dealing damage, just with plasma it's delivered in a different form.

Then again, the "lasers" in Warzone look more like hypothetical plasma weapons. A laser wouldn't be a bolt it would be a straight, continuous beam. This is similar to Star Wars, in which lasers/blasters are in reality plasma weapons (in the way they are produced and visually look when fired, similar to WZ2100 lasers), with "laser" just being a nickname.

Interestingly, the pulse laser implies a special type of laser fired in pulses, but it's just a more powerful version of the flashlight...in fact it quickly obsoletes the flashlight entirely, especially in skirmish. Plus all lasers in Warzone fire in pulses.

Hmm, ideas for a separate thread.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby zeland » 05 Sep 2009, 16:15

Kacen wrote:Interestingly, the pulse laser implies a special type of laser fired in pulses

What's so special about a laser that switches on and off? As far as I know, pulse(d) lasers are amongst the most common type as opposed to continuous beam lasers due to:

1. Power & cooling requirements.

2. Air that heats up will become less dense and acts as a lens to defocus the beam (thermal blooming). Very short pulses can also counteract these effects by passing through before the medium has time to respond. Air cannot expand fast enough to affect a nanosecond or shorter pulse.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Deus Siddis » 05 Sep 2009, 16:25

Kacen wrote:If anything they're more similar to flamers than lasers as heat is their main way of dealing damage, just with plasma it's delivered in a different form.


coughplasmiteflamercough

Then again, the "lasers" in Warzone look more like hypothetical plasma weapons. A laser wouldn't be a bolt it would be a straight, continuous beam. This is similar to Star Wars, in which lasers/blasters are in reality plasma weapons (in the way they are produced and visually look when fired, similar to WZ2100 lasers), with "laser" just being a nickname.


Maybe, but probably not. The advantages of plasma/ions weapons comes four fold:

1) you can make it really hot like you said
2) it potentially causes all kinds of electrical havoc on electronics and personnel
3) its electromagnetic properties allow it to be accelerated very easily, like the round from a rail gun (think particle beam)
4) its electromagnetic properties allow it to form into a self contained projectile called "ball lightning"

When you get hit by the very fast moving ions of a particle beam in sufficient quantity or a dense ball of plasma ruptures and explodes nearby, there is a potential for kinetic, as well as thermal damage. So plasma weapons should really be their own special class that deals both kinetic and thermal damage in game.

And they should have their own look as well- either a bright white-blue or purple-pink beam or orb, hitting instantly or visibly traveling to its target, respectively.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Kacen » 05 Sep 2009, 18:35

zeland wrote:What's so special about a laser that switches on and off? As far as I know, pulse(d) lasers are amongst the most common type as opposed to continuous beam lasers due to:

1. Power & cooling requirements.

2. Air that heats up will become less dense and acts as a lens to defocus the beam (thermal blooming). Very short pulses can also counteract these effects by passing through before the medium has time to respond. Air cannot expand fast enough to affect a nanosecond or shorter pulse.

No no, you get me wrong.

When I say pulse I mean a single bolt. Anyone could turn a laser on and off, but it would take some special technology to make a laser fire in the way it looks like on the game. It fires like a bullet, rather than a continuous beam. Like a cohesive piece of energy, more akin to a plasma weapon. (Like I said, like the "lasers" in Star Wars, which are in fact really plasma weapons).
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Kacen » 05 Sep 2009, 18:39

Deus Siddis wrote:coughplasmiteflamercough

Plasmite is fictional, but it may be plasma related. Who knows? It's more perhaps plasma but unfocused and emitted like a flamethrower, as opposed to most fictional plasma weapons which would use a magnetic field to keep the plasma in line, which I'd think WZ2100's plasma cannon would use.

Deus Siddis wrote:So plasma weapons should really be their own special class that deals both kinetic and thermal damage in game.

That might be a bit too extensive. For one that would be a lot of work for a trivial weapon's class I would think, and two having a weapon that's equally effective against cyborgs and vehicles (combining All Rounder with AP) would somewhat ruin balance.

Deus Siddis wrote:And they should have their own look as well- either a bright white-blue or purple-pink beam or orb, hitting instantly or visibly traveling to its target, respectively.

I've already suggested the plasma cannon needs a real overhaul when it comes to the SFX and the shot graphics.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Kacen » 05 Sep 2009, 20:10

Requesting a mod or admin move this thread to Ideas and Suggestions.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Zarel » 06 Sep 2009, 03:06

I'll reply to your posts in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3679
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Deus Siddis » 06 Sep 2009, 16:35

Kacen wrote:Plasmite is fictional, but it may be plasma related. Who knows? It's more perhaps plasma but unfocused and emitted like a flamethrower, as opposed to most fictional plasma weapons which would use a magnetic field to keep the plasma in line, which I'd think WZ2100's plasma cannon would use.


You have to use a magnetic field to keep it in line no matter what kind of delivery method you are using.

And you can't control it magnetically once it is traveling to the target, even if you could exert that much influence on it that means your enemy could too and send it off course or stop it. You have to get it going so fast that it can't be stopped, unless you're just going to dump it on little cyborgs at close range, which is exactly what the plasmite thrower does.

So the weapon you describe already exists in game is my point.

That might be a bit too extensive. For one that would be a lot of work for a trivial weapon's class I would think, and two having a weapon that's equally effective against cyborgs and vehicles (combining All Rounder with AP) would somewhat ruin balance.


There simply is no other option. Plasma has no specialty otherwise, there's weapons at that point in the tech tree that do everything else. And it wouldn't break balance, gauss would still be better against vehicle and laser would still be better against cyborgs and aircraft. This weapon would just be somewhere in between.

Also, it's extreme weight could be kept so that only the super heavies could carry it.

I've already suggested the plasma cannon needs a real overhaul when it comes to the SFX and the shot graphics.


I was not just saying it should be overhauled, I was saying there are two ways to go about making it look right. Instant hit beams like Zarel is going to do with the lasers, or glowing ball lightning projectiles that fly at their target. Either one can make sense.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Kacen » 06 Sep 2009, 17:16

Deus Siddis wrote:There simply is no other option. Plasma has no specialty otherwise, there's weapons at that point in the tech tree that do everything else. And it wouldn't break balance, gauss would still be better against vehicle and laser would still be better against cyborgs and aircraft. This weapon would just be somewhere in between.

Also, it's extreme weight could be kept so that only the super heavies could carry it.

It's specialty as I suggested and already partially exists would be the token vehicle superweapon, the only thing on it's tech tree, and have the highest firepower.

I'm just suggesting changing it's weakness from short ranged to long reload to make it less (ironically) useless.
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Re: Plasma Cannon - Making it Useful

Postby Deus Siddis » 08 Sep 2009, 18:17

Kacen wrote:It's specialty as I suggested and already partially exists would be the token vehicle superweapon, the only thing on it's tech tree, and have the highest firepower.


Just having the highest firepower doesn't mean anything.

I'm just suggesting changing it's weakness from short ranged to long reload to make it less (ironically) useless.


But it would still be useless, so there isn't too much point to that.
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