Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby themousemaster » 31 Aug 2009, 15:52

Kacen wrote:In that case the balancing should be done when constructing the actual hardpoints as opposed to researching them, example being well them taking long to build.


Be careful with this suggestion: while it will have the (likely) desired effect on a constantly-back-and-forth map, those people who prefer a turtler or techer strat will suddenly be much more dangerous, by utilizing just a basic "defense in depth" strat.

(I.E. they build a few bunkers/tanks way out from their base to tie up attacking forces, and while said forces are tied up, they mass-build the same-expense-just-longer-to-build supertowers).
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby J.Vaughan » 01 Sep 2009, 07:51

BulletMagnet wrote:are five flavours of MG needed? (here, i'm bundling AG's in with MG's)

can we just drop the 2xMG and 2xAG, and space the HMG and AG further along the tech-tree?


I disagree, when starting a map with T1 2xMG are strategically better. You can produce two 2xMG for every 1 HMG in terms of cost. the 2xMG turret only costs 25 power and the HMG turret costs 50 where as DPS difference is nominal and ROF is better on the 2xMG... HP isn't as good as the HMG but the turret is lighter also making it more agile.

Makes you want to rethink your T1 rush strategy doesn't it? Keep the 2xMG
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby nicholasneko » 02 Sep 2009, 06:40

well now if your going to get into this machine gun argument. why not dual or quad HMGs like they did with the 50 cals in WW2 <.<;;;; personally i always saw the assault gun as a gattling gun and why not just change the dual into a heavy assault/gattling gun? i dunno. just RL counterpart ideas to the gun fight going on..

to the bunkers and what not. i like it! frees up alot of the tree for other fun things.
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby lav_coyote25 » 02 Sep 2009, 07:18

NAVEL CANNON!!
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Kacen » 05 Sep 2009, 14:10

nicholasneko wrote:well now if your going to get into this machine gun argument. why not dual or quad HMGs like they did with the 50 cals in WW2 <.<;;;; personally i always saw the assault gun as a gattling gun and why not just change the dual into a heavy assault/gattling gun? i dunno. just RL counterpart ideas to the gun fight going on..

to the bunkers and what not. i like it! frees up alot of the tree for other fun things.

Thing is by the time I can research the twin assault gun in Skirmish I never end up using it unless I'm low on cash because by that time lasers are "in", and the twin assault gun can't match the efficiency of even the Flashlight.
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Kacen » 05 Sep 2009, 23:21

Requesting an admin to move this thread to Ideas and Suggestions.
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Joe » 08 Sep 2009, 19:36

I totally agree.

How come that you need a lot of time to research how to mount a weapon to some concrete, while you are instantly able to mount the very same weapon to different bodys?

My proposal is:

Clone the concept of vehicles: Research buildings (pits, bunkers, towers of any kind) and handle them like bodys! An interface to design buildings like it exists for vehicles, done. Prohibit some buildings, like "Mortar + Tower", if it doesn't make sense, np.

This would even clean up the building menu, since you can delete obsoleted designs.
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Kacen » 08 Sep 2009, 20:21

Joe wrote:I totally agree.

How come that you need a lot of time to research how to mount a weapon to some concrete, while you are instantly able to mount the very same weapon to different bodys?

Precisely!
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Vermithrax » 11 Sep 2009, 02:17

Kacen wrote:I've realized that it doesn't make logical sense that it takes so freaking long to research some defenses, that is hardpoints/bunkers/emplacements/towers/etc.


I don't agree. In Skirmish mode, when the AI develops offensive capability so much faster than you can, decent defenses can still win.
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Kacen » 11 Sep 2009, 08:39

Vermithrax wrote:I don't agree. In Skirmish mode, when the AI develops offensive capability so much faster than you can, decent defenses can still win.

Umm...

Did you even read what you just quoted?

If anything your response is only another reason why my suggestion is a good idea...
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Steeevoe » 13 Sep 2009, 20:54

Some defensive points are just built up too quick. How is it possible to have fifthteen trucks working on one structure and it magicaly appears in seconds!

Cement etc is going to have to set, that should be a deffensive disadvantage. Structures should not be able to be built up so quick, and there should be a maximum number of trucks working on structures, like 1 truck per square edge of structure (4 per bunker, 8 per research, 12 per factory)
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Kacen » 13 Sep 2009, 22:00

Steeevoe wrote:Some defensive points are just built up too quick. How is it possible to have fifthteen trucks working on one structure and it magicaly appears in seconds!

Cement etc is going to have to set, that should be a deffensive disadvantage. Structures should not be able to be built up so quick, and there should be a maximum number of trucks working on structures, like 1 truck per square edge of structure (4 per bunker, 8 per research, 12 per factory)

I wasn't referring to build speed, I was referring to researching the defenses. I mean if they can research a turret and you're instantly able to attach it to a vehicle body why does one have to research a defensive emplacement with the weapon, essentially how to attach it to a tower or hardpoint or bunker?

Also the way buildings are built in Warzone is unorthodox. I always imagined the trucks have raw material which they "beam" to a spot and build it up from there...

...I kinda think it works like the transporters on Star Trek.
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Re: Researching Defenses takes overly long, which is illogical.

Postby Steeevoe » 13 Sep 2009, 23:21

Exactly, so quit the requirement to have to research this and put the time on the build time instead. If the require for the research is just removed, it might get too easy to defend your base meaning no one can win.
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