Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Ideas and suggestions for how to improve the Warzone 2100 base game only. Ideas for mods go in Mapping/Modding instead. Read sticky posts first!
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Zarel
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by Zarel »

elio wrote:i wish zarel's guide is inlcuded in the official webpage (same style) :D
http://guide.wz2100.net/

One day...
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Tenoh
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by Tenoh »

Just one more small idea,duo-cannon turrets! ^_^
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ThunderBuns
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by ThunderBuns »

The ability for allies to help build/repair your structures.
terror623
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by terror623 »

hi, new to the forum not to the game
my whishes:
a way to easylie obsolete units and turrets, maybe a right click on a designed unit's garbage icon automaticly will send all units of exactly that type to be recycled, and perhaps a right click on a turret type sends that turret to a special tab so that you dont have to browse them all
better pathfinding, make units avoid steep inclines/declines more and smarter calculation of dead ends
roadbuilding, allowing you to build roads from your default factories up to were you need your units to be to allow faster travel times

I really like the idea of trenches maybe it can be combined with a basic bridgebuilding with prefab bridges (like engineers in real world situations), this would also create a whole new tactical perspective
Combined with trenching sapping might also be nice to destroy hardpoints/walls/fortresses/batteries of artillery, it would have to be time consuming of course
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by TheDaze »

Hello all!

In addition to my suggestion that the commander's (turret) sensor range should follow the upgrade curve, I've been thinking about balancing.

As you all know, over time, units get experience points which slightly increase their effectiveness in battle. However, I think this feature works against the balance and realism on the battlefield. It inevitably works in favor of the winning side, therefore the one that doesn't need any systemic assisting mechanism. The more powerful one side is, the more powerful it gets. So, in my opinion, the "experience points mechanism" left by itself is redundant. Either we come up with something to counterweight its effect, or we should remove it altogether. No "finetuning" will ever make it work.

The "removing" solution is simple enough so I guess it doesn't need any explaining.

Fortunately, I believe I have a better solution. What we need is an additional "fatigue points mechanism". How would it work and what effect to the gameplay do I expect?

How would it work:
-a unit gets fatigue points for every chosen time interval during which it is active. If it is only moving it gets less points than if it is engaging. If still (resting, same trigger as for autorepair), it's points get slowly deducted but not as fast as at the repair facility.
-a unit can have fatigue poins removed at a repair facility. Mobile repair units do not remove fatigue.
-fatigue points negatively affect the unit's speed, ROF and accuracy. The effect should be by a factor greater than the positive effect of experience points.
-defensive structures do not have fatigue points

What effect would it have:
-as the attack force gets deeper into the enemy lines, it's fatigue will make it less and less effective, making "blitzkrieg" strategies more difficult to employ
-the less powerful side will get a chance to strike back at an imprudent attacker and pick off his precious experienced units
-of course, the units ont the defensive are affected just the same, that's an incentive to building structures.
-experience points can really make a difference now, we can boost their effect more. A sergeant can be twice as accurate and 50% more powerful than a rookie. This effect will be balanced away in prolongued battles anyway.
-defensive structures finally have a meaning and purpouse. They not only have a direct effect of damaging a unit or two, but also wear down all the units that engage them, making them weaker and weaker as the incursion progresses.
-new, more realistic tactics would have to be employed, both on the offensive and the defensive. Refreshing the troops would play a crucial role.

Please do not confuse fatigue with damage, saying "we already have damage, why do we need fatigue". It's a completely different mechanism.
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by Commander_Keyes »

Oh yeah.
But I understand that you mean Fatigue in the same way as "Godddamn, I have had enough. Let's go home, this demoralizes me". This psychological strain certainly applies to human soldiers, but the units in WZ ('cept the Cyborg I guess) are drones. Drones are not meant to have human feelings, don't they? So I suggest the fatigue could be replaced with material fatigue (No matter how good you are, a repair of the armor is inferior to a replacement of said equipment).
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by fisk0 »

Commander_Keyes wrote:Oh yeah.
But I understand that you mean Fatigue in the same way as "Godddamn, I have had enough. Let's go home, this demoralizes me". This psychological strain certainly applies to human soldiers, but the units in WZ ('cept the Cyborg I guess) are drones. Drones are not meant to have human feelings, don't they? So I suggest the fatigue could be replaced with material fatigue (No matter how good you are, a repair of the armor is inferior to a replacement of said equipment).
I don't think most of the units are drones, if you look closely on some of the bodies you can see things that look like windows (I think Viper and Python got those), and the fact that they actually get experience must mean that there is a human involved there.

I'm not sure I agree that the experience thing really make the game that unbalanced. The bonus effects of experienced units in multiplayer games does not make the units unbeatable, but maybe there could be something like what you see in some RPG's and I think some turn based strategy games (I can't name any of them now), where losing units get stronger. I'm not sure what it is usually called, but something like berserk mode, perhaps could be 'activated' if a player lose many units or buildings in a short amount of time, maybe could temporarily give units on the losing side (or units closest to the ones being slaughtered) some short range damage bonuses or something, symbolizing the classic war movie cliché of the final few soldiers after seeing all their friends killed of picking up their guns and rush at the enemy determined to take as many as possible with them as they die.
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by TheDaze »

Commander_Keyes wrote:Oh yeah.
But I understand that you mean Fatigue in the same way as "Godddamn, I have had enough. Let's go home, this demoralizes me". This psychological strain certainly applies to human soldiers, but the units in WZ ('cept the Cyborg I guess) are drones. Drones are not meant to have human feelings, don't they? So I suggest the fatigue could be replaced with material fatigue (No matter how good you are, a repair of the armor is inferior to a replacement of said equipment).
Regardless. This whole game is an approximative simulation of a battle theater. Nothing here is exactly real. The trick of programming simulations is to more or less guess the variables involved and then tune them until the whole gear feels and behaves realisticly enough. What I am saying here is that WZ needs an additional variable.

Discussing whether there are soldiers in the vehicles is quite superfluous.
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by TheDaze »

fisk0 wrote: I'm not sure I agree that the experience thing really make the game that unbalanced. The bonus effects of experienced units in multiplayer games does not make the units unbeatable, but maybe there could be something like what you see in some RPG's and I think some turn based strategy games (I can't name any of them now), where losing units get stronger. I'm not sure what it is usually called, but something like berserk mode, perhaps could be 'activated' if a player lose many units or buildings in a short amount of time, maybe could temporarily give units on the losing side (or units closest to the ones being slaughtered) some short range damage bonuses or something, symbolizing the classic war movie cliché of the final few soldiers after seeing all their friends killed of picking up their guns and rush at the enemy determined to take as many as possible with them as they die.
WZ is not a RPG. It's a RTS, and within the genre quite on the simulative side, too. I dont' believe "berserk mode" fits into this concept. Also, making "berserk" or whatever you want to call it mode available to selective player's control, that makes it just another weapon.

I am not talking about weapons, rather about the virtual reality of the world WZ entities reside in. As it is, in the WZ world there is no concept of tiredness. I say this particular concept would add to gameplay and it should be introduced.
gene69
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by gene69 »

thing i would like to have

-> smoke screen or something to defeat sensors (i read that something like this was design but not implemented) and make sensors best work on top of hill or be affected by weather...

-> better way to use commanders. i would like make then drive unit in specified order (machinegun/flamer first followed by artillery units) i would like a hit and run button. so scripted behaviour.

-> repair turret may capture units who are going to the repair structure saving them some road, i also wanted the choice of the algorithm which make them choose unit to rescue: the closest unit first; the more damaged first, the less damaged first; just make units in the orange zone and let them go to repair structure (as damaged units are slow); never rescue unit in kamikaze mode....

->hold fire for defensive structure to ensure one hit kill by reducing the distance

-> get intelligence on defeated units (what weapon i have already use again them and how much hits it cost to defeat them) this could be great and will be balanced by research and improvement. on weak target it can delay some missile launch to save reload time. i dont want to have all my defence defeated by harmless scoots cause they have all aimed at the same scoot and there were some bunker bluster behing how come in range behind safely

-> having some wind :) vtol will love that, but not long range weapon (cause it will irregular) and ballistic skills to compensate it.

-> option in path finding. "avoid the ennemy", shorter way (time or distance) or determine "check points"

-> allow to make two or three columns when moving large armies. (yes i want some trucs make a large turn and other a small one. i dislike went trucks collide in each other in the turns and stops) allow quickest unit not to behind one.

-> when multi turret options are activated; don't allow to have two "big" turret on a trucks; first the trucks is very slow then it makes trucks very ugly.

-> when the droid are far away from the base or a relay; response to the order may suffer delay.

-> vtol commander
Xenith1985
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by Xenith1985 »

How about some different multiplayer modes? If possible.. Like a CTF type variant or even a King of the hill.
-CTF... -Every player has a flag in their start position
-Trucks are the only units that can carry flag back to the base where they are to be captured at their own flag's spawn.
-Once someone scores with the flag the player who's flag was captured has their base and units destroyed and they lose.
-Limit the weapons that can be researched to keep the game's objective attainable.

-King of the Hill... -Multiple positions to hold
-Holding a position for an extended period of time gives you research documents that allow you to build better structures and units.
-No researching.. only holding positions and using blueprints you earn by holding them.
-A predetermined score limit wins.

Just thinking out loud..
Black Cat
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by Black Cat »

Hello.

Here a list of my suggestions:

-Add a gates to structures list, that will be available to construction only between two hardpoints (or not only :)). Gates will be opened when friendly units moving across it and not open if this enemy units. Also may add ability to this gates that will hold opened or closed gates always.
-Add special BMP units, without weapons, but very strong armored. BMP will be transport cyborgs and cyborgs can fire while they in. And set limit of that units.
-Add in game control at units from keyboard, like it was in original game on PS :)

Sorry for my "perfect" english :D

And realy BIG thanks to developers!
Woolie Wool
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by Woolie Wool »

I suspect the idea of playing multiplayer as either Project, New Paradigm, Collective, or NEXUS has been brought up before, but I had the idea of which faction you pick affecting the difficulty curve and optimal gameplay style. For instance, New Paradigm would have a distinct advantage in T1, possibly employing hired Scavengers and getting their medium and heavy bodies before everyone else, but would face penalties (possibly inability to research certain upgrades, slow research speed, etc.), as the tech level ramps up. On the other hand, playing as NEXUS would leave you in a tight spot early on as you would start with units that are expensive to produce (Retaliation bodies) and need a lot more upgrades than New Paradigm or even Project tech to reach their full potential (a basic Retaliation/wheels unit from the beginning would not be much better, if better at all, than a Viper chassis until you get upgrades), and you would not have access to normal infantry (which other factions would have), leaving you with no units other than tanks before you develop cyborgs. However, NEXUS would get a lot more out of T2/T3 tech than the other factions. The Collective would be be relatively weak at first and its units would be even less mobile than in the original game, but its production speed increases faster than anyone else's, allowing you to swarm enemies with hordes of units once you get factory modules. So you have New Paradigm for rushers, NEXUS for turtlers/techers, Collective for brute force assault tactics (not really "rushing" per se because Collective units would have poor mobility), and Project as a balanced all-rounder faction. In addition, each faction would have technologies not available to others except through capturing artifacts from that faction.

And, as mentioned in that previous paragraph, non-cyborg infantry available from the start, created and deployed in squads instead of individually. Pretty much an ultra-cheap combat unit to use until you get cyborgs.
unmorph
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by unmorph »

My first suggestion is a fuel system. Units have fuel reserves that are depleted over time. Refueling stations are logical structures to go along with this. As well, research could reveal portable generators of varying outputs. Improved engines and weapons could be more energy efficient, allowing the fuel reserves to last longer.

Next is the need to rearm ground vehicles in the same style as VTOLs.

Replace or augment the recycling system with a retrofit system. Instead of dismantling a vehicle only to build it again slightly differently, just alter the existing vehicle. Production times might be calculated by the number of changes you are making. If you are changing EVERYTHING on the vehicle, the production time and power cost would be identical or similar to producing a brand new unit. But if you're only swapping out a turret, the time and cost is only a third of that.

Someone else on here mentioned vehicle formations. I second that. And the ability for commander units to learn tactics such as "hit and run", "ambush", and so on. Commanders could communicate with each other for multi-unit tactics. Like a situation where one commander wants to withdraw for repairs and signals a reserve commander to replace it. Or coordinated multi-unit base attacks.

Anyway, those are a few ideas I've had. Cheers.
Souless Existance
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Re: Warzone 2100 wish list - all can contribute_part 3

Post by Souless Existance »

TheDaze first of all go play some strategy games, on the professional level :) then find out what "FUN" means.
The suggestions that i have seen by you would truly ruin the game and REDUCE realism and fun of the actual game.

The way you "TheDaze" make it sound like is as if the units magicaly earned experience. LOL @ you!
A more skilled player is able to increase his units experience more efficiently by keeping it alive longer, thus allowing him to EARN better units through the spending of time and effort in game.
If the experience system becomes problematic it should be balanced better not removed.

Unit Fatique would really decrease the fun in the game by a large margin.

Lets say you lose a battle to me near your base, through me using more advanced tactics and then my units get fatiqued and you manage to make 1 or 2 tank(s) and take them out cause their tired... LOL? That would be utter bs tbh and lead to a proper camper style game play which i and most professional gamers despise.

what some one here suggested about multiplayer sides and their differences is ok but seriously each side should be just balanced properly with their counterparts not kept diverse to their own style.

What if i like the nexus side and dont liek camping or teching? I just prefer a smoothly playing active match...
No ones won wars by camping :)

Edit: i forgot to add that it would be nice if any graphics enhancing mods would be combined with the full actual release to increase the quality of the whole product.

excellent work so far :)
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