auto fire weapons at appropriate targets

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auto fire weapons at appropriate targets

Postby Bethrezen » 08 Apr 2016, 13:10

hi all

here is a suggestion make the AI auto fire weapons at appropriate targets, what do I mean ?

Don't know if this has already been addressed in multiplayer but is still an issue in the campaign mode, the auto fire of player units always favours enemy units regardless of the weapon that units is equipped with, which in my opinion is incorrect behaviour, given how various weapons in this game are specialised to be effective against a specific types of target, then I would expect the auto fire of player units to be smart enough to auto fire there weapons at appropriate targets so if units are for example equipped with bunker busters then those units should prioritise enemy building before enemy units.

this shouldn't be to difficult a change to make all that is need if to run a simple check to see what weapon that units is equipped with and then select targets based on what is appropriate for that type of weapon starting with its preferred target, and then simply working down a priority list from highest to lowest
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Re: auto fire weapons at appropriate targets

Postby Pantifax » 20 Jul 2016, 14:38

Conversely, defensive structures could do the same.

This may encourage the use of "screening units".
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Re: auto fire weapons at appropriate targets

Postby Joatlee » 13 Sep 2016, 13:34

Maybe it could be limited to units assigned to commanders?
Wouldn't this make commanders a little more worthwhile, instead of being just a plain stat boost?
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Re: auto fire weapons at appropriate targets

Postby Iluvalar » 26 Nov 2016, 09:47

I'm late in this post, but ai.cpp or combat.cpp (or i dont remember) do all that already. Albeit it was not perfect, when i read this bit of code i was impressed on the amount of stuff taken into account to pick a target.

I think we had a bug, and maybe even have is still where the AI was so strong that it was psychic and allowing the ammo by taking the hit or miss status of the missiles that were still flying toward their target.

It's just that, at the end of the day, shooting the closest target as soon as possible and focusing on the same target then allie is a pretty strong strategy on itself.
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Re: auto fire weapons at appropriate targets

Postby Bethrezen » 07 Jan 2017, 20:10

@Iluvalar

while I get what you are saying, I can't help but feel that there has to be some middle ground here because the inability to target specific weapons at specific targets really limits your options.

Take bunker busters as a case and point this weapon is utterly useless against anything other then building if you fire them at units they do basically zero damage which in the grand scheme of things renders them completely useless because you have to individually target and fire each unit manually and that is simply to cumbersome and to much micromanagement in the middle of a fire fight and this point is made all the more pertinent when bunker busters are attached to vtols since you only get a single shot and then have to go back to base and reload.

which adds even more micromanagement because vtols don't automatically return to the combat zone after rearming, now one way to get around this is to set them on patrol over a given area but that has its own issues because again the auto fire is stupid and units that are equipped with bunker busters end up preferring units over buildings which there weapon can't damage since bunker busters are not designed for damaging units.

therefore there needs to be a way to make units with certain types of weapon prefer certain types of targets so in the case of bunker busters that would be enemy buildings and in the case of something like lancers that would be enemy units and in the case of something like the flash light or pulse laser that would be cyborgs

now one way I have previously suggested going about this is to introduce a dawn of war style toggle where you can set a secondary command to make individual units or groups of units only target buildings or only target units or target both now that is a very simple and basic system but it would give you that little bit more control

a second way to go about it is as a suggested in this thread enhance the auto fire by adding a priority system to it where the unit will look at the available targets in range and will when auto firing pick the target with the highest priority so to give you an example

if I set a flight of bunker buster vtols to patrol over an enemy base they will ignore units and prefer buildings until there are no more buildings within there assigned patrol area at which time they will attack any units that come in to there assign patrol zone

conversely if I have say a flight of lancer equipped vtols set to patrol over an enemy base then they will prefer to attack any units that come into there assigned patrol area and will only target building when there are no enemy units within range

now this is only when auto firing obviously I can override this as a player by telling them to attack a specific target

now you can see how you could then deploy both of these types of units together in groups so the lancer vtols will target units protecting the bunker busters from AAA units or other vtols while the bunker busters go to work reducing the enemy base to rubble in much the same way that fighters escorted bombers during the second world war unfortunately that's not currently possible because the auto fire is stupid and bunker buster units keep wasting there ammo on units against which there weapon is ineffective

The same goes for ground units if I role up with a squad of bunker busters and a squad of tanks I expect the bunker busters auto fire to ignore enemy units and attack building first without me continually having to micromanage them and I expect the tanks auto fire to ignore buildings and attack units first without me continually having to micromanage them.

now could this end up being massively overpowered if you get it wrong yes because you end up with the sort of scenario that you described but that is not what I'm aiming at I'm simply looking to have my units be a little smarter in the targets selection so that I can use weapons like the bunker buster and the flash light/pulse laser because at the moment there is no point in using half the weapons in game because of this and its actually far simpler to just use a general purpose weapon like the assault gun which is basically effective against everything which is a real shame because it removes so many tactical options simply because the computer cant handle weapons like the bunker burster because the computer is too stupid to realise that bunker busters don't work on units

it also limits the smarts of the AI as well which actually makes the game boring because the computer makes no attempt to try and counter you

take nexus as an example now nexus is supposed to be this super smart AI and in reality its a thick as two planks.

now on the third campaign nexus uses lot of cyborgs so obviously the solution to that is to deploy anti cyborg weapons but when I do that I would hope the computer would be smart enough to realise that the cyborg attacks aren't working because I'm using anti cyborg weapons and switch it up and start producing units to counter my anti cyborg weapons if I deploy a lot of air craft then I would hope the computer would be smart enough to counter me by building AAA units if i deploy a lot of artillery I would hope the computer would be smart enough to try and build air craft to counter it

if you have ever played say dawn of war you see exactly this behaviour if you start deploying a lot of armoured units for example the computer will counter by producing more anti armour units and you get that continual ebb and flow which makes the game more engaging
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Re: auto fire weapons at appropriate targets

Postby Tzeentch » 07 Jan 2017, 23:23

Prior DOW master myself, Agreed with Bethrezen's statements.
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