Page 10 of 11

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 11:53
by Rman Virgil

These type experiences can sap the energy outta ya. I know from experience. But it's good to hear, bendib, that you are leaving it up to the active participants. I do believe the majority consensus is that you and your work are welcome. And contrary to the opinion expressed earlier, this project has benefited from past forks in ways that are not trivial. I take your welcome here as more acknowledgement of that than magnanimity transcending the typical egoic dynamic.

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 11:56
by bendib
Rman, if I am banned, please use my signature, if you want. I want one echo for these forums. Thank you so much for everything.


Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 17:25
by Per
Can we dispense with the melo-drama, please? Nobody is planning to ban anyone.

Everyone be nice and keep the noise level down (and signal level up) and everyone is happy.

Re: Recollections and ruminations

Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 17:55
by Rommel
bendib wrote:I'd like to give a shout out to Rommel, to apologize for offending him
No problem! Thanks man

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 19:14
by Shadow Wolf TJC
@bendib: I still stand by my suggestion that you should consider advertising Legacy more passively, such as adding it to your signature. I believe that, sometimes, people need to make sacrifices in order to get what they want. I personally have made one such sacrifice, as while I may have had an idea for a signature that I'd like to use, I felt that using the space to advertise my own projects took priority.

Still, I wish you good luck on future endeavors.

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 20:02
by Originway
this is not a attempt to hurt, only help, since after reading your 'poor me' post, it seem you need some help.
READ it.
The common theme of these self-piteous cognitions and verbal declarations can be described as the “poor me” phenomenon, where one globally labels others as well as life/the world at large as harsh, cruel, unfair, or bad for treating them unjustly. While some might believe that vengeful statements about the malevolence of other individuals and situations external to self help protect them from the unforgiving world, this is wholeheartedly inaccurate. By stewing in hatred of others and life, one is in fact perpetuating their own misery, inflicting further harm on the very individual whom they are trying to protect the most. One’s chronic insistence that life circumstances change and others behave differently towards them as well as the whiny rehearsal of self-talk like “others and life are bad because they don’t give me what I want” do nothing but self-defeat and propagate negative, unhealthy states of being. Chronic depression and unremitting rage flourish within this frame of mind.

That isn’t to say that life and others are not capable of unfairness at times and that they never deal us a shitty hand. Quite the contrary. Life is hard and people do behave contemptibly, and these are some of the unfortunate truths of being alive. But that is not to say that you have to make it worse by catastrophizing about bad events and the unsettling behaviors of others, and you surely do not have to demand that things outside of your control be different. Instead, tell yourself that life at times can be a complex, challenging series of adversities and that others have, are, and will continue to treat you poorly at times. However, also remind yourself that you have control over your own emotional well-being regardless of the injustice that occurs around you. Tell yourself that life circumstances and maltreatment by others could always be worse, that at least some aspects of your life and relationships with others are positive, and that NOBODY, including Mr. Life, HAS TO give you everything you wish for.
“The universe doesn’t care about you, it’s not for or against you, it just doesn’t give a crap.”

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 23:06
by bendib
If I had the so-called poor me phenomenon, I would think that everyone here hates me. I don't. "Others are bad and hate me because they don't give me what I want"??? Eww. Eww. What a terrible outlook on life. I don't ask for a castle filled with gold coins, nor do I believe everyone is out to get me. I, unsurprisingly, take offense at your post. I really don't want to get into this again, but I will end on the note of "how dare you pretend to know what I have experienced, and how dare you make assumptions about my attitude, much less assumptions about my attitude so disgusting."

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 17 Jan 2013, 00:00
by Per
Originway - I don't know if you are actually trying to help or not, but this isn't helping, this is not the place for it, and it is obviously not wanted. Leave him alone.

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 17 Jan 2013, 00:43
by bendib
Per, I am giving you a sincere thank you. :^)

Re: Recollections and ruminations

Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 04:57
by stiv
bendib wrote:To all who read this thread and care:

Re: Recollections and ruminations

Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 05:03
by bendib
stiv wrote: tl;dr

Re: 3.1.0 has been released!

Posted: 21 Jan 2013, 12:15
by wei2912
Rommel wrote:
bendib wrote:
Originway wrote::wheee: finally ! :yahoo:
game runs silky smooth unlike other versions of warzone that are pushed by some people. :roll:
A. You have not tried Legacy lately.
B. Stop trying to make me angry with comments like these, it works.
C. QT 4.x has issues on some windows machines, causing your symptoms. QT 5.x was recently released. I will use it for next release.
D. You could not come up with a response to the truth, yet you continue to troll me, which makes you a troll.
As much as I am not interested I couldn't help being surprised that a fork of wz2100 can actually be advertised on this site. It shows great leniency from the maintainers as most other projects wouldn't do this, they would just tell you to go make your own site and get your users like that.

For what it's worth, I think it is a bad idea to allow forks to advertise in these forums because as it tends to fragment an already tiny community. It is already hard to get 10 people together for a MP game and since all users have to be running the same fork it fragments things even further. I am not sure if it is the legacy fork, but I went to try one the other day and it doesn't even support mac (this is a huge step backwards IMO) so there it makes it even worse :(

I would propose that this sites policy would prohibit the advertising of forks. If a dev wants to fork U, then they should set up there own site and do their own advertising without riding on the back of all the hard work done by the devs here. I work a lot with Open Source CMS and I can tell you now, if I forked one of them and advertised the fact in their forum I would straight away be told to fork off (excuse the pun).

Just my 2 cents.
Not to start a flame war (or restart one), but here's my opinion about forks:

Forks don't fragment a community, it binds and diversifies the community. It shows that people do care about the project. Unlike what many people think, forks are usually made due to different goals, not a disagreement. Forks DO share code between them. And just because a fork is incompatible, it doesn't mean it fragments a community. It definitely doesn't.

The community of Ubuntu is part of Debian. The community of CentOS is part of Red Hat. And same goes for Legacy: The community of Legacy is part of Warzone 2100.

A fork is breathing life into a new idea, a new goal.

From the perspective of forks fragmenting a community, what about mods? Mods will also fragment a community - many have reworked tech trees, new campaigns etc. But they don't. Instead, they bind the community together.

An example is on GitHub. Forks there represent that you are willing to contribute to a project. For those of you unfamiliar, to contribute to a project, you fork the repository, make your edits and send a pull request to the owners of the project for them to accept it.

It's the spirit of Open Source/Free Software. Do what you want with it. Being against forks is being against Open Source philosophy - the only reason why you release your source code is not for the community or others, but for your own project to bloom.

Note that when I say "you", I do not refer to Rommel. I refer to the reader. This is not self-directed, but rather to provoke thoughts.


Something more on-topic: we just fixed the transporter bug. Thanks to Cyp for writing the original patch. ... 6f13d0f920

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 21 Jan 2013, 12:17
by bendib
Well put. To be honest, if someone forked Legacy, I'd be saddened they found it to be inadequate, but I certainly would be OK with it.

Re: 3.1.0 has been released!

Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 00:59
by Rommel
wei2912 wrote:
Note that when I say "you", I do not refer to Rommel. I refer to the reader. This is not self-directed, but rather to provoke thoughts.
I am not against forking, it has it's place - I just didn't think it was appropriate to advertise them on this site in the forums. Those projects that you mentioned, do they allow forks to advertise in their forums? I am not sure about this, but I doubt they would.

Ok so we have multiplayer, normally I see that there are around 40 people tops playing, out of these half of them are so far away that their pings make it impossible to play them. So you are left with about 20 players at "at best", probably 50% of the time it is much less than this. So then you go advertising forks on this site, what is going to happen to the player pool? If some go and install the fork they are going to be frustrated when wanting to play MP because I doubt there will be more players in the forks lobby than the official release.. then you have the official release which loses players as well... I see it as lose-lose and bad for MP in general.

If WZ had a large MP player base I wouldn't really care, but the thing is it doesn't, it's still a baby and maybe this baby is losing vital sustenance to forks. Yes forking can be great for a large project, with a large user base, but on the flip side I feel that fragmentation can kill a small project.

That is just my two cents, with the only motive being that I want more people in MP :)

Just to add - remember the offical wz version started small as well, it didn't have an established website to advertise it's product - the peeps involved had to do the hardwork which seems to have taken many years - not just the code, but building up the site infrastructure, the guides, etc, etc. This shows that forks don't need to hold mummies skirts to be popular, a fork if good can make it's own way in the world.

Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 01:29
by bendib
I understand Rommel :^)

It's important to note that I already stopped announcing Legacy changes on these forums. There was a time when there was significantly more people in Multiplayer, but as 3.1 was pushed, they fled. They lost interest, and being told that 2.3.9 was "unsupported" at the same time that unstable releases were being pushed at them caused a mass exodus. 3.1 was originally scheduled for February 2012. I recall hearing it in IRC back in late 2011. This massive gap between unsupported stable and supported unstable cost the game a lot of players. It's only going to get far worse now that 2.3.9 was "banned" from the lobby. That essentially cut off a large bunch of players who simply dislike 3.1 or can't even run it. I am granting them access to my lobby server, but how will they find it?