FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

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Lord Apocalypse
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FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Lord Apocalypse »

Do i want to see a new commercial release of Warzone? Yes. While it is highly unlikely Redemption will ever make it that far I do not want to exclude that possibility. I have mentioned it before. If I wasn't clear on my intentions.. sorry, wasn't trying to hide anything.

If you think it goes against what FOSS stands for.. well you might want to read up on the nature of FOSS
wikipedia wrote:In the context of free and open-source software, free refers to the freedom to copy and re-use the software, rather than to the price of the software. The Free Software Foundation, an organization that advocates the free software model, suggests that, to understand the concept, one should "think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_o ... e_software

As to the odd exemption in the WZ release.. I see no reason to use it. Not unless the planets aligned perfectly and Zeus flies down from Olympus to give me a commercial grade graphics renderer that I could license out, but then my project wouldn't be GPL now would it.

If anyone thought I was trying to be shifty about it I'm not. May not have made myself very clear is all.

Now for something scary. Did you know that within the GPL,if someone (foolish or stupid, maybe both) decided to charge for their source code they could provided it is priced at an equal or lesser amount than the binary release. For the life of me I can't figure out why that clause is in there...

Comments, question, odd remarks, or boos welcome. Flames.. well, thats up to the mods to allow on this one ;)
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Goth Zagog-Thou
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

It's an interesting idea. I was under the impression that one of the conditions for the source code liberation of WZ2100 was that nobody could charge anything for it? Unless I'm mistaken.

Rman might be the best one to answer this.
Per
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Per »

You can charge for material under the GPL, but anyone who buys it can distribute it to others for free as they wish. So when people sell things under the GPL, it is usually just a convenience charge (otherwise people will just go get it elsewhere).

You cannot charge separately for the source code. If you distribute binaries, you must provide source to the same recipient for free.

That's the short story, anyway. The long story is really complex, and really boring. I do not think anything useful will come out of discussing it.
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Rman Virgil
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Rman Virgil »

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As I understand the legality (& I'm no expert) both LA and Per are correct.

The only real money to be made in FOSS / GPL is in selling service contracts to maintain and / or customize the software for a biz. WZ is a game, you can't sell a service contract ergo its, well, not a very promising biz model to put it kindly. What kills it is exactly what Per spoke to - Redistribution legal recourse rights..... you have NONE. End of story.

As for the exception clause... It came up specifically in regards to integrating a free Newtonian physics engine that was not OS into the WZ 2200 project.

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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by aubergine »

A possible revenue stream could be a hosted lobby server that authenticates players (to keep the riff raff out)? If it was monthly fee and number of subscribers were sufficient, it could generate a decent amount of revenue. (I've no idea how much because I've not tried that business model myself)
"Dedicated to discovering Warzone artefacts, and sharing them freely for the benefit of the community."
-- https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/display/GO
Lord Apocalypse
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Lord Apocalypse »

true enough. I think something like that would be popular if the number of cheaters was less than 1 in 50 players. So long as you charge a reasonable amount. Then you have to be able to confirm cheaters and make sure you don't ban legitimate players or you risk angering everyone. Building a cheat resistant game is hard enough as it is :lol2:
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Berg
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Berg »

So you want to make money from something we get for free now?
I been watching a lot of this fork discussion and how your not making compatible compression files etc and I don't like what I'm hearing.
Instead of going with the attitude of what you can make out of US why not do it for free like the rest of us do.
Sounds like you want to revert the game back to windows only OS too I maybe mistaken.
But your sounding like you would take what we have now and make it in an image of yesteryear and all its problems.
Thats just what your total topics sound like correct me if im wrong.


And who is going to be getting the buck> ME?
Lord Apocalypse
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Lord Apocalypse »

Berg wrote:So you want to make money from something we get for free now?
What you get for free now was made by this project. Even if or when I charged for distribution you could still grab the source and compile. It might require a little more work but it's still free.
I been watching a lot of this fork discussion and how your not making compatible compression files etc and I don't like what I'm hearing.
I want to see what I can do with the source. Redemption is based off retail, not 3.1. Lets look at it this way. If we have the developer tools to create the mods in the correct structure the format and compression itself doesn't matter. Developer tools are something this project lacks in a few ways, one reason why I hope stratas work to update WZCK and PIESlicer work out in the end, though PS isn't as high a priority since there are several tools that do nearly the same thing as well as export scripts/tools for blender (I think I remember seeing something to that affect).
Instead of going with the attitude of what you can make out of US why not do it for free like the rest of us do.
You mean besides keeping my kids fed? Lets face it, this is not a get rich quick idea. I enjoy tinkering, especially with source code, project files, bugs, etc. If people are willing to support me by buying what I produce then I can focus more time on doing what I enjoy and they can enjoy what I have been created ad hopefully feel it was worth spending money on. Its the same as asking everyone on this forum to donate money to wz2100.net to help fund web hosting or hiring a contract artist/programmer. Both of which I would like to do. Many open source projects always seem to be lacking in the art department. Anyway, on to the next line. If anyone wants me to continue on free/not free go for, but for now.. moving on.
Sounds like you want to revert the game back to windows only OS too I maybe mistaken.
I have stated on more than one occasion that at first it will be windows only until I can figure out opengl etc. The easy way would be to use the early cross-platform code pre 2.1 but that doesn't allow me to learn, also something I am looking to do or I wouldn't want to put so much work on my plate by starting from retail. So, cross platform yes, just not all at once.
But your sounding like you would take what we have now and make it in an image of yesteryear and all its problems.
Thats just what your total topics sound like correct me if im wrong
Not following you on this one. Will make an attempt, let me know if I miss the mark. No matter how advanced or archaic Redemption gets this project will always have a chance to use code or resources. So, if Redemption has super cool feature X and this project doesn't then it boils down to weather the dev team here wants super cool feature x. Both projects are GPL so its not like I can hide any source code to keep this project in the dark.

I am hoping to spur new ideas and development for both projects. How I run my project is a personal choice. :lecture:
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Berg
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Berg »

Well if your Project is microsoft only then its no use to me I run Opensuse.
As for tools there is plenty that can do all facets of warzone so your claim there is not tools is far from true.
Anyway Have a nice project.
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Rman Virgil »

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aubergine wrote:A possible revenue stream could be a hosted lobby server that authenticates players (to keep the riff raff out)? If it was monthly fee and number of subscribers were sufficient, it could generate a decent amount of revenue. (I've no idea how much because I've not tried that business model myself)
Now THAT has potential as a biz model.

The MP services would have to be kick-a§§, super attractive all around (which by no stretch exists at present nor likely ever will otherwise) to sell a subscription and possibly make it specialize in FOSS games to carve out your own niche apart from such services as Punk Busters......

( http://www.evenbalance.com http://punkbuster-services.software.informer.com/ )

I only know one guy best qualified to run the biz viabilty of this idea by..... and you know who I'm talkin bout LA. ;)

EDIT: Now what I said in my earlier post - "Redistribution legal recourse rights.....you have NONE." would actually work in your favor under this type business model.... I'm pretty sure, as I understand viral marketing. But for sure run it by our expert in these matters of game MP services providing..... our successful entrepeneur WZ bud from all the way back to MPlayer days. :3

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Last edited by Rman Virgil on 15 Jun 2012, 08:59, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by RBL-4NiK8r »

You can't be really thinking of charging people money for this game its a dinosaur and you have many of other games out there today that offer much more just for the cost of the game. StarCraft 2, Supreme Commander 1 & 2, Warcraft 3, Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War, Rise of Nation, Earth 2150, and 2160 just to name a few and I have all of them as well as a few flops. This game didn't even make it into the RTS Wiki as the first 3D RTS no that went to Homeworld had that game to it sucked, and it came out after WZ2100 but they had the marketing we didn't. Not only that you would be lucky to pull in more then a hundred people. Yes there was a time I thought some of us could have made money on this game if we could have put a second game out but that never happened did it.

@berg this was a good game from yesteryear as were the people that worked on it back then and the people under me to help get this open source. We were the ones to do all the hard work to let all the Macheads come in and steamroll us out because they thought they had the keys to a new car. Yes some new things have been done to the game, but I still have gigabytes of maps, mods, weapons, body's, conversion to this game and lots of other stuff on CD's, DVD's and on my old PC that will never see the light of day because of what happened after this game went open source.

Its been what 6 years now and yea I am glad to see its still around but I really don't see that many ground breaking changes or the tech tree fixed or much added to it. The balancing in the betas suck in many areas and no one what's to hear it but what the heck who cares its another game for Mac.


4nE
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Berg »

@RBL-4NiK8r This is still a good game and i don't deny the credit of those that got the game for us but you say nothing has been done over the past 6 years sure your missing a lot ...Dont just look at balance thats only part of the project look at the total ...See tcmask added I had input in that also see the net code its advance the cause of none cheating a great deal and the coder that did it put in many hours to achieve this your not seeing im sure. The map editor is a wonder of programing its a tool that allows even the lay person to make maps credit to its author so No the game is not standing still...thats a tiny insight into whats been happening...
There is a lot more done ...
But pay to play it hardly...
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Rman Virgil »

Berg wrote:@RBL-4NiK8r This is still a good game and i don't deny the credit of those that got the game for us but you say nothing has been done over the past 6 years sure your missing a lot ...Dont just look at balance thats only part of the project look at the total ...See tcmask added I had input in that also see the net code its advance the cause of none cheating a great deal and the coder that did it put in many hours to achieve this your not seeing im sure. The map editor is a wonder of programing its a tool that allows even the lay person to make maps credit to its author so No the game is not standing still...thats a tiny insight into whats been happening...
There is a lot more done ...
That all I agree with.

But pay to play it hardly...
This..... I wouldn't be so sure about. (Read my last post thoroughly for the reasoning and why I think it's worth at least exploring and running by biz expert in the field who is also a great fan of the game going back to retail.)

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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by RBL-4NiK8r »

Berg wrote:@RBL-4NiK8r This is still a good game and i don't deny the credit of those that got the game for us but you say nothing has been done over the past 6 years sure your missing a lot ...Dont just look at balance thats only part of the project look at the total ...See tcmask added I had input in that also see the net code its advance the cause of none cheating a great deal and the coder that did it put in many hours to achieve this your not seeing im sure. The map editor is a wonder of programing its a tool that allows even the lay person to make maps credit to its author so No the game is not standing still...thats a tiny insight into whats been happening...
There is a lot more done ...
But pay to play it hardly...
I understand a lot under the hood of the game was done, and its still changing, but not much has been done to the SP part of the game in years no new campaigns, weapons or storylines from what I have seen. Sorry for that because I am sure I have missed alot over the years too, but years ago we had so many plans to do so many things they never got done. I just hope times have a changed a bit.
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Re: FOSS, Warzone, and making a buck.

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Berg wrote:@RBL-4NiK8r This is still a good game and i don't deny the credit of those that got the game for us but you say nothing has been done over the past 6 years sure your missing a lot ...Dont just look at balance thats only part of the project look at the total ...See tcmask added I had input in that also see the net code its advance the cause of none cheating a great deal and the coder that did it put in many hours to achieve this your not seeing im sure. The map editor is a wonder of programing its a tool that allows even the lay person to make maps credit to its author so No the game is not standing still...thats a tiny insight into whats been happening...

There is a lot more done ...

But pay to play it hardly...
RBL-4NiK8r wrote:I understand a lot under the hood of the game was done, and its still changing, but not much has been done to the SP part of the game in years no new campaigns, weapons or storylines from what I have seen. Sorry for that because I am sure I have missed alot over the years too, but years ago we had so many plans to do so many things they never got done. I just hope times have a changed a bit.
They have 4nE - ".... hope times have changed a bit." :3

The game is moving steadily towards another Renaissance I do believe. :)

AND.... what is totally unique to WZ has yet to be fully realized and it is key to the games long term relevance in the RTS genre. When that component gets the attention it merits - watch out RTS world!!

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