Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Other talk that doesn't fit elsewhere.
This is for General Discussion, not General chat.

Why is the multiplayer mode not as attractive as the singleplayer mode?

Unstable: Desync and stuff
12
46%
Prolonged games: A game usually lasts multiple hours
1
4%
Huge tech tree: Always the player who knows the tech tree best who wins the game
0
No votes
Imbalance: Certain weapons/bodies are too good while the rest are useless
1
4%
Turtling: Players fortify themselves and aggravate the prolonged games problem
2
8%
Lack of diversity: The weapons/bodies/units are same except their appearance. No factions etc
2
8%
All of the above
2
8%
Warzone mp rocks!!!
6
23%
 
Total votes: 26

Per
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by Per » 06 May 2007, 22:27

krushia wrote: Stealth units are needed in the game.  Units that can sneak up on a base and attack it, without being detected by a sensor tower and blown to bits by base structures.
I would absolutely love that. I always play the sneaky, backstabbing bastard race/option in RTS games. Unfortunately, that option does not exist in Warzone... :(
"Make a man a fire, you keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, you keep him warm for the rest of his life."

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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by Giel » 06 May 2007, 22:29

Troman wrote: Installation:
Unzip mp.wz and replace "research.txt" from "stats\research\multiplayer" directory with the file from the archive. Then zip up all the whole content again.
Per, you don't need to modify your archive files for that, you can simply create a directory structure like ~/.warzone2100/stats/research/multiplayer and dump your file there (my docs\Warzone 2100\stats\research\multiplayer on windows). These files (i.e. the ones in your homedir) will always have preference over the archives (this is due to PHYSFS's path order).
"First make sure it works good, only then make it look good." -- Giel
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UrbanVoyeur
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by UrbanVoyeur » 07 May 2007, 03:06

I think that can be defined in a mod. I was looking over the old AI editor - it generates good scripts. There may be a flag in there to lower or eliminate sensor detection.

Maybe even a stealthing unit that projects a field like in C&C - though I'm not sure that can be scripted.

One thing I'm having trouble understanding is whether the *ini files use by many of the AI scripts were suppoted by the base code or mod that loaded the scripts.

If it the ini handling was scripted, then reviving many of the AI's would not be that hard. If the ini handling is hard coded in the base build then we will just have to wait ..,

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lav_coyote25
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by lav_coyote25 » 07 May 2007, 05:21

Troman wrote: Wasn't it Aivolution with simultaneous lassat strikes and simultaneous unit transports ;) or did Speedy use cyborg transports?

he didnt use transports....  he used matter transporters ( i believe they looked very similar to the laser sat building...)

see the following...
CODE
---------------------------------------------------
- aiBoost 1.8beta2                                -
-                                                -
- The Next Generation Cooperative Multiplayer Mod -
---------------------------------------------------

Features:
---------

Two Fractions: The AImpire and You (haven't a good name, so when you have one...)
Two Technologies, two sets of buildings and weapons
BUT ONE WAR!

See the mission briefing for more details on that.


Installation:
-------------

If you are unsure whether version or installation you should choose or don't know
exactly what Warzone version is installed on your computer, please download the
FullPlay-Edition of aiBoost

if you have patch 1.10 OR 1.11 and all necessary wzstarter files (VB6, OCX and Runtime
files) installed, then you don't need that FullPlay-Edition, you can take
the normal Play-Edition or even the ModOnly-Version.

Please read the installation infos provided during the installation process...





CODE

Setup information - Please Read !!
===============================

1. AIBoost will be installed to your Warzone Directory
  It is neccessary that you have installed Warzone from the original CDs!

2. Even the smallest installable version will include WZStarter v1.33
  If you have installed WZStarter on your system by yourself, please unclick
  this selection in the components window!!
  WZStarter and/or additional ai files which come with aiBoost will be installed
  ALWAYS in the folder {wz-directory}\WZStarter.
  In this beta-version there is no check where you have installed your version
  of WZStarter, so if you have installed it into another directory please copy
  all added ai files into your own WZStarter directory.

3. There are four versions of this mod available:

  - the ModOnly-Edition (AIBoost, Maps: Mortiforous and theBigOne)
    be sure to have ALL REQUIREMENTS INSTALLED before installing this
    version: you will need a (blank) warzone installation,
    Official Patch 1.10:  http://www.wz2100.de/downloads   

wz2100-update110.exe

    and all required files to run WZStarter:

VB6Run60.exe (VB Runtime files)

RequiredSystemOCXFiles.zip (OCX files)

WZS_RequiredFiles.zip (dlls for WZStarter)
    If you are unsure if you meet these conditions please install the FullPlay-Ed.

  - the Play-Edition (has ModOnly-Edition, additional Maps from Coyote, Mabster
    and 4NeK8r, the AIBoost Trailer, 1.10 Techtree (will be aiBoost-Techtree in
    further releases), Tutorial and the Mission briefing)

  - the FullPlay-Edition (has Play-Edition, Patch 1.10 from Pumpkin and
    Programs (like WZStarter incl. all mentioned necessary Windows files)) -
    this is the recommended Edition you should install!

  - the Developer-Edition (has FullPlay-Edition and the complete Developer Kit for
    more mods, with WZCK v130, WDG Explorer, Pie Slicer DX, AIEditor and a lot of
    other Tools, Progs, Mods and over 250 Maps (!!))

3. On the page "User Information" please fill in your Warzone Nickname

4. On the page "Select Components" please select what you want to install:
  - Compact installation: only AIBoost will be installed
  - Custom installation: AIBoost + some Maps and Mods will be installed
  - Full installation: depends on the edition:
    Play Edition: same as Custom installation
    FullPlay Edition: Custom installation + all necessary updates to Warzone
    Prog Edition: Custom installation + the complete WZupgrade Compilation

5. During the Installation of FullPlay or Prog Edition you will be prompted for
  the game-directory a few times.
  Therefore copy (CTRL+C) and paste (CTRL+V) your game directory as shown
  during this setup or look in the DOS-Box that is showing up.
  Sorry for this behaviour, I've included most of the updates and mods in their
  original way with their respective installer to keep their copyrights;-)
  So make sure you copy-paste your game directory name in these input fields...
  During the installation of wzstarter you should hit the big button to install!


To play aiBoost double-click the WZStarter-Icon on your Desktop!

If you get an error starting WZStarter
- then you haven't installed all neccessary WZStarter required files:

wz2100-update110.exe (Update 1.10)

VB6Run60.exe (VB Runtime files)

RequiredSystemOCXFiles.zip (OCX files)

WZS_RequiredFiles.zip (dlls for WZStarter)


- or your "system language" is somewhat different
therefore please delete the file
{WZ-directory}\WZStarter\starter.ini
and restart WZStarter. Now you have to input all neccessary data by yourself.
Sorry. This Bug will be fixed in a future release.

Known issues with this current release of aiBoost:
- Save games could sometimes crash
- multiplayer: money cheats (~ slider) work only in skirmish play

Goodies:
- are all located in the aiBoost directory in your Warzone-dir.

aiBoost Play Setup:
- WZStarter: Choose any AI with ## on any starting location how you want
- AIs without that ## could give you some ctd's. So please take ais with ##
- For human players you normally should choose 'Original 1.04 ##'
- Warzone2100: difficulty-modifiers and their effects:
- number of human players
  --> decreasing starting time of *first* LasSat, Chronosphere and GAVA
      (in conjunction with the main aiBoost difficulty setting!)
  --> increasing number of *first* Chronophere and GAVA units
- main aiBoost difficulty setting (in structure limit screen)
  --> increasing money cheat for AI (in conjunction with individual ai
      difficulty setting!)
  --> decreasing starting time of *first* LasSat, Chronosphere and GAVA
      (in conjunction with number of human players)
- individual ai difficulty setting (play setup screen, ai slider)
  --> increasing money cheat for AI (in conjunction with the main
      aiBoost dificulty setting!)
- player statistics (i.e. money overload)
  --> decreasing LasSat, Chronosphere and GAVA reload time
- Warzone2100: Maps:
- keep in mind that aiBoost is designed for T1 games only, so some
  scripts won't work in T2 or T3 games!!

first playing:
- take map SandCastles-T1 (or for an easy play TheBigOne-T1)
- no more than two ai players
- give yourself maximum power cheat (structure limit screen, slider to 0)
- WZStarter: ai on position 7: GK## or 1.04##, position 6: Turtle##
- in warzone deactivate all other ais (besides these last two)
- check the included mission briefing for more details!





CODE

Roadmap: Improvements, Changes and New Items:

When 1.7 only was a 'weapon tweaking mod' with some money cheats for the AI,
the upcoming 2.0 will be much more of a 'new units/ weapons/ buildings/ techs
and scripting mod'. Read on for further details:

Taken ideas, impressions and wishes from "What should be in AIBoost 2.0 ?"
and "Update-Wünsche für 1.7/1.8/..." and of course this topic.

Updated 16.11.2003

last official version 1.7(FULL) : official release (16.04.2003)
1.8beta1 : finished/ released (17.08.2003)
1.8beta2 : finished/ released (16.11.2003)
1.8beta3 (bugfixes only): not even started -> Xmas 2003
1.9beta1 : not even started -> summer 2004 ?
...
FINAL 2.0: not even started -> Xmas 2004 ?

______________________________________________________________________________________


TOPIC                                        PRIO  %DONE  in beta    /  release

Balancing improvements and weapon changes
- Decrease building time (MKII-IV (empl/turret),
Wyvern and Dragon, plasmite bomb)            1    #####                1.8beta1
- Increase radar range of wide spectrum tower  1    #####                1.8beta1
- Balance all AI bastions                      1    #####                1.8beta2
- Increase reactor power output by ~45%        2    #####                1.8beta1
- Increase general power output                2    #####                1.8beta1
- Again balancing MK weapons and plasmite bomb  1    #####                1.8beta2
- Balancing of other non-AI-only weapons like
laser(s), scourge and others                  1    #####                1.8beta2
- Update nuke: better explosion grafics,
new warhead definition, make longer
incendiary effect (to simulate radiation)    2    ##    ->1.8beta++
- more ??                                      2    _      ->1.8beta++

Include completely new Items/Tech with new graphics
- Two more wall versions                        2    #####                1.8beta2
- New weapon MK V (emplacement only!)          2    #####                1.8beta2
- New weapon: Anti ai Mine *hehe*              2    #####                1.8beta2
- New special weapon: Car bomb !!!              2    #####                1.8beta2
- New building/tech for AI: Chronosphere        2    #####                1.8beta2
- New building/tech for player: Jammer Tower    2    #####                1.8beta2
- New very advanced secret Techs and Buildings: 
The Bulk Matter Transmitter and Controller    2    #####                1.8beta2
- New building for player: Stasis Field
Projector and Controller                      2    #####                1.8beta2
- New body with materials directly from
black hole researches: nearly undestructable
but very unstable (replaces Retaliation)      4    #####                1.8beta2
- New 4-player-Map (from Lav_Coyote)            5    ###                  1.8beta2
- New fighter only weapon (Anti-Bastion-Bomb)  2    _      ->1.9beta
- New laser based heavy weapon                  3    _      ->1.9beta
- New fighter body: The Shark (replaces bug)    3    _      ->1.9beta
- New super heavy body: The Daggernaught        5    _      ->2.0
- New heavy body: The Executioner              5    _      ->2.0
- New mega weapon for daggernaught              5    _      ->2.0
- Update GFX for MKV, Car bomb, Chronosphere,
Mine, Jammer Tower, Stasis Field Projector,
Controller and Bulk Matter Transmitter        3    _      ->2.0
- Updated map SandCastlesX for aiBoost          2    _      ->2.0
- New 8-player-Map                              5    _      ->2.0

Balancing and Improvements for AIs in aiBoost
- Include lower cheating versions for all AIs
there will be 3 versions of all available AIs:
. completely unmodified,
. litte boosting (starting credits, increased
  ressource output, marked with a '+') and
. very high boosting (unlimited ressources -
  note these are the same as the boosted AIs
  in version 1.7!, marked with a '++')
. possibly you will find another version,
  marked with a '##', this is the same as the
  very high boosting, but will enable some
  special weapons for the AI too              1    #####                1.8beta1
- Include other available AIs in aiBoost (Part1)
(GhengisAI, H20)                              3    #####                1.8beta2
- Include other available AIs in aiBoost (Part2)
(SuperAI, SuperAI1, Omega Prime)              3    _      ->1.8beta++
- Include a special *NEW* AI for aiBoost
(This AI will even have access to player-only
weaponry like the MKI-IV and let's see the
nuke?? *hehe*)
This AI will have different identities
(which you can change ingame)                1    ##    ->1.8beta++
- Remove power bug from all AIs                1    #####                1.8beta1
- Remove memory bug in TurtleAI
now you can take up to 6 Turtles with aiBoost
and 7 !! without aiBoost                      1    #####                1.8beta2
- Enable super weapon (multiple LasSat)
for AI with better target recognition        2    #####                1.8beta2
- Update Building Limits                        1    #####                1.8beta2
- Include Power scripts for PowerGenerator
and NuclearReactor                            1    #####                1.7 ++
- Include Power scripts and nuclear handling
for reactor, cooling systems and meltdown    1    #####                1.8beta2
- Include alliances scripts
(AI+AI, AI-Pl, Pl?Pl)                        2    #####                1.8beta2
- Include mine scripts                          2    #####                1.8beta2
- Guided AI VTOL attacks                        2    #####                1.8beta2
- Include more scripted Weapons                2    #####                1.8beta2
- Include Detonation and Death zone scripts
for nuke                                      2    #      ->1.8beta++
- Balancing ? Other improvements ?              2    #      ->2.0

Make it compatible with the commonly used warzone versions
- 1.10 official patch                          1    #####                1.8beta2
- 1.11 inofficial N.E.W.S.T patch              2    #####                1.7 ++
- 1.12 new inofficial patch from Pumpkin-2      4    _      ->2.0

Update the research tree
- New weapons/buildings for research (Part1)
(nuke, reactor, MKI,II still available after
MKIII,IV)                                    1    #####                1.8beta1
- New weapons/buildings for research (Part2)
(coolingTower, mines, walls, MKV)            1    #####                1.8beta2
- New weapons/buildings for research (Part3)
(secret buildings and Tech *hehe*)            2    #####                1.8beta2
- New weapons/buildings for research (Part4)
(new weapons, new bodies)                    2    _      ->2.0
- Increase research cost and time (MKI-IV and
emplacements, dual heavy cannon, others)      2    #####                1.8beta1
- Include "researchMod2" (and remove it from
the package) (that means decrease all over
research cost & time by 25%)                  2    #####                1.8beta1
- Deactivate that means hide all "AI-ONLY"
Research topics from the player              2    #####                1.8beta2

GUI for aiBoost
- Make all AIs (even the original ones)
selectable for playing : you can select any
AI (in any cheating variant) on any starting
location that you want!!                      1    #####                1.8beta1
- Better integrate aiBoost in WZStarter        2    ###    ->1.8beta++

that's it....
for now

see more in the "Roadmap to 2.0"-Topic...


‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

speedy
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Posts: 5
Joined: 08 May 2007, 01:02

Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by speedy » 08 May 2007, 01:27

:o
now this IS serious...
thanks to lav_coyote i've coming my way back to 'this' forum...
seeing talking about aiboost...
;D
that's funny.

now, i don't think i have the time to reactivate it for the 'new warzone code' (i even haven't had any look at your new version  :-[)
(or is there a need for it?)
but to answer some small questions:

1) yes, these ais WERE cheating - if you allowed them to do so. I have implemented 'sliders' to give the ais AND/OR the player more money and modifying some script values for attacking, group sizes and so on...
2) you know the integrated ais (like turtle, water, gk and so on - most of them were cheating themselfs...)
3) when 'true' unit transportation were scripted (by troman?) i had already left the active scripting for aiboost - so no, this was not implemented here
4) what was implemented were new features for players (for that time most of them were FIRST seen in my mod) include nuclear reactor with cooling tower and meltdown sequences, transmitter tech (transportation of units from one place to another through wormholes  ;D), unstable bodies, controllable stasis fields (an emp shockwave generator disabling ANY units in range ;D), mines (not the ones from the famous warzone editor maker (have forgotten his name)) and of course some powerfull anti-ai weapons as i liked smashing ais  ;D
5) and in conjunction with 1) more powerfull additions to the ais like guided air raids, chronosphere tech (anyone knows red alert?) and so on... only ais rely on cyborg tech so these got more changes...
6) its completely and only about multiplayer coop and skirmish - nothing else including balances  ;D ;)
or as the orks would say.... stumping hummies...  ;D

as i recall i had implemented some other graphics for some additions but had not finished this stuff, so i left it...
if needed i can see if i find the source somewhere in my archives...

cya speedy

and yes, try multiplayer coop, thats way more fun to play - because your teammates will likely play WITH you more often than AGAINST you loosing to much  ;)
besides aiboost will demolish your morale... you were warned!
Last edited by speedy on 08 May 2007, 01:32, edited 1 time in total.

Troman
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by Troman » 08 May 2007, 11:15

Hi, Speedy, long time no see.
speedy wrote: now, i don't think i have the time to reactivate it for the 'new warzone code' (i even haven't had any look at your new version  :-[)
(or is there a need for it?)
We have more players then back then in the Pumpkin-2 days but we are lacking modders/scriptors, so maybe you will reconsider your decision and I bet your hands are itching to do some scripting again. ;)

Bad thing is we can't use WZStarter to change AIs anymore, since it doesn't run on linux.

Good thing is the scripting engine is much more powerfull now, allowing us to write advanced scripts.

If you want to chat, come to irc.freenode.net #warzone, some developers usually hang out there.
Sign Up for Beta-Testing:
?topic=1617.0

speedy
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by speedy » 08 May 2007, 11:50

hi Troman, yes, along time is gone now...
for me "without any warzone" besides real life isn't it?  :D
Troman wrote: We have more players then back then in the Pumpkin-2 days but we are lacking modders/scriptors, so maybe you will reconsider your decision and I bet your hands are itching to do some scripting again. ;)
That's fine! Warzone is still one of the finest coolest games out there!
Troman wrote: Bad thing is we can't use WZStarter to change AIs anymore, since it doesn't run on linux.
What about a java remake of WZStarter? I do java programming as my job so i don't think this would be too much trouble to remake it?
Troman wrote: Good thing is the scripting engine is much more powerfull now, allowing us to write advanced scripts.
some more infos available? like the famous scriptlang.rtf file...??

cu
speedy

Giel
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by Giel » 08 May 2007, 12:14

speedy wrote: What about a java remake of WZStarter? I do java programming as my job so i don't think this would be too much trouble to remake it?
I'm not sure what this WZStarter thing does. But if it needs to be run alongside Warzone I think it would be a better idea to integrate it into Warzone itself instead of requiring users to run it separately.
speedy wrote: some more infos available? like the famous scriptlang.rtf file...??
I'm not sure if this is up-to-date (probably not entirely): http://svn.gna.org/svn/warzone/trunk/Sc ... Manual.htm
"First make sure it works good, only then make it look good." -- Giel
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speedy
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by speedy » 08 May 2007, 12:55

Giel wrote: I'm not sure what this WZStarter thing does. But if it needs to be run alongside Warzone I think it would be a better idea to integrate it into Warzone itself instead of requiring users to run it separately.

I'm not sure if this is up-to-date (probably not entirely): http://svn.gna.org/svn/warzone/trunk/Sc ... Manual.htm
the 'old' Warzone - as i don't have a glue the new one does - had different AI scripts for each seperate player position so you could change the 'personality' of the player-# to another AI.
I remember these AIs: original 1.04, original 1.10, WaterAI, TurtleAI, GK - i think there were a few more... (like AIvolution and one from Niker (very good one!))

WZStarter now had an AI customizing page where you 1) could select the AI for each player position, 2) edit some scripted values in these scripts (when the script were enabled for that feature) and 3) select other preferences for Warzone and then you could start Warzone with these features...

Of course it would be better to integrate that feature directly in the Warzone Multiplayer Page - but it's also a matter of personal resources and to merge that in the 'official' development branch...
A different tool could be made indepentendly from Warzone with all the positives and negatives...

With the documentation... i don't see much changes since the old one i had used... but perhaps I missed something ;)
Any cool new features you could make with the new Script language??

cu
speedy

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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by Troman » 08 May 2007, 13:23

speedy wrote: With the documentation... i don't see much changes since the old one i had used... but perhaps I missed something ;)
You sure did. There are new callbacks, tons of new functions, new member vars for units, structures etc and most importantly function, string and floating point support.
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UrbanVoyeur
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by UrbanVoyeur » 08 May 2007, 18:01

Troman wrote: You sure did. There are new callbacks, tons of new functions, new member vars for units, structures etc and most importantly function, string and floating point support.
Are these new features documented? The wiki script docs are sparse..

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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by Troman » 08 May 2007, 19:39

UrbanVoyeur wrote: Are these new features documented? The wiki script docs are sparse..
Here: http://svn.gna.org/svn/warzone/trunk/Sc ... Manual.htm
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by UrbanVoyeur » 08 May 2007, 20:29

Thanks. Does this include the new features?

Edit: added to wiki here: (it is no longer sparse ;-)
http://wz2100.net/wiki/wzscript:index
Last edited by UrbanVoyeur on 08 May 2007, 21:18, edited 1 time in total.

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lav_coyote25
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by lav_coyote25 » 09 May 2007, 05:32

UrbanVoyeur wrote: Thanks. Does this include the new features?

Edit: added to wiki here: (it is no longer sparse ;-)
http://wz2100.net/wiki/wzscript:index

and also : here on the docs project - updated .
‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

speedy
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Re: Poll:Why warzone multiplayer is less attractive?

Post by speedy » 09 May 2007, 10:50

I had to look a bit further into this document.
indeed some more possibilities... perhaps my transportation script could be reworked without my old restrictions... have to see...

nicely done.

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