First, thankyou for a good time-killer! It has many interesting features which makes it enjoyable.
...But there is one silly problem...
The AI is bitterly hard, and it develops its tech and forces suspiciously fast (two times faster than I can squeeze from my facilities). I decided to test game with easier settings - no difference! LIKE WHAT THE HECK? Why the AI doesn't get any easier although you switch it "Easy", or in skirmish, to the minimum setting? Is this still in progress, or is there just a problem in me? ???
Help needed and answers being waited.
Easy AI?
Re: Easy AI?
Mhm, in easy (slider on the left) i beat the PC in 10-15 minutes at T1, on hard (slider right) i got beaten in 10-15 minutes.
Maybe you should disallow Alliances, because CPU's will alliance against you if you play skirmish.
Maybe you should disallow Alliances, because CPU's will alliance against you if you play skirmish.
We all have the same heaven, but not the same horizon.
Re: Easy AI?
The AI have always a storm-start, with better tech than you until 15-30 mn, because four reasons :
1° She know the map and don't loss time in search of Oil Points and... you.
2° She don't build a lot of defenses. Then, she can put more energy in research.
3° She don't build early the 5 Research Centers. Most players do, without think they don't have, at this moment, the energy for them. IT's an error that cost a lot.
4° She go after the Oils Points.
If you can resist until that, you can litterally crush her with your defenses.
I suggest, at the beginning a mix of defenses and units. If possible light gun (i don't understand why a lot of players think LG his a crappy weapon : It's devastating in the early (LG bunker + LG tank +, maybe, LG hard point = poor ennemies).
Use LG bunker. Use the "echellon" strategy (ennemies units go often for your factories and QG) for place the bunker. They are cheap and really hard to kill with the early weapons. Put a truck near them for repear. Use your units has "reserve" (think Napoleon) for help where the bunkers are hard pressed.
Alway defend a Hard Point with one or two bunkers.
Research first gun, mini-rocket (until that unlock the missiles), commander post (unlock research center modules). I think engines unlock the first Oil Module (more they are updated, better).
Mini-rockets towers don't have the punch, but mini-arty is devastating against cyborgs and little tanks.
Always go after Oil Points. Build a MG tower or a bunker (heavy armor) and they send to you a lot of oil. Don't try to "fortress" a Oil Point far your base : That cost you too much, a lot more than the Oil Point give you (a least in the early time).
If the AI can't crush you in the early game, she never can.
1° She know the map and don't loss time in search of Oil Points and... you.
2° She don't build a lot of defenses. Then, she can put more energy in research.
3° She don't build early the 5 Research Centers. Most players do, without think they don't have, at this moment, the energy for them. IT's an error that cost a lot.
4° She go after the Oils Points.
If you can resist until that, you can litterally crush her with your defenses.
I suggest, at the beginning a mix of defenses and units. If possible light gun (i don't understand why a lot of players think LG his a crappy weapon : It's devastating in the early (LG bunker + LG tank +, maybe, LG hard point = poor ennemies).
Use LG bunker. Use the "echellon" strategy (ennemies units go often for your factories and QG) for place the bunker. They are cheap and really hard to kill with the early weapons. Put a truck near them for repear. Use your units has "reserve" (think Napoleon) for help where the bunkers are hard pressed.
Alway defend a Hard Point with one or two bunkers.
Research first gun, mini-rocket (until that unlock the missiles), commander post (unlock research center modules). I think engines unlock the first Oil Module (more they are updated, better).
Mini-rockets towers don't have the punch, but mini-arty is devastating against cyborgs and little tanks.
Always go after Oil Points. Build a MG tower or a bunker (heavy armor) and they send to you a lot of oil. Don't try to "fortress" a Oil Point far your base : That cost you too much, a lot more than the Oil Point give you (a least in the early time).
If the AI can't crush you in the early game, she never can.
Re: Easy AI?
I'm survive 2 hours the NPC in max and he's make a LOT of machinegun bunkers >:( And smalll amout of HPV and cannon defences
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Watermelon
- Code contributor
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Re: Easy AI?
flame weapon will destroy bunkers in no time,though it only does 5% to hardpoints.....Obaum wrote:
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.
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themousemaster
- Regular
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- Joined: 10 Nov 2006, 16:54
Re: Easy AI?
Erm... what the heck is an LG?
Re: Easy AI?
Jarms, I assume what you need is more training. I destroy several AIs on the hard settings with no real trouble. 
For all the years WZ exists the fans were always complaining that skirmish AI is way to easy to beat.
I'm sure after some time you will crack them like nuts and beg for a harder AI.
And as for difficulty slider and cheating, the slider will give AI additional power and speed up research, depending on the slider position. When you set it to the very left it has almost no effect.
As an additional cheat it gets some free units if you start with "Advanced Bases". Not sure why Pumpkin did this, maybe we should just get rid of it, it is kind of annoying for us humans to find a swarm of AI units happily waiting for your rush inside AI base.
Jarms, how many AIs do you actually play against?
The most common mistake people make is that they wall themselves in the base and let AI get all the oil resources on the map. With so much oil it can overrun almost any player. You have to secure as much oil as possible and as soon as possible.
Another common problem is that many players don't build mobile units, instead they rely entirely on defenses. With a bunch of fast hover tanks you can afford having less defenses around your oil resources and spend the power for something else.
And of course you have to know the tech tree. Once you get the power module and power upgrades you can just happily pump your units preparing your attack. And once you have tracks, heavy mg, lancer, cobra body life becomes so much easier.
For all the years WZ exists the fans were always complaining that skirmish AI is way to easy to beat.I'm sure after some time you will crack them like nuts and beg for a harder AI.
And as for difficulty slider and cheating, the slider will give AI additional power and speed up research, depending on the slider position. When you set it to the very left it has almost no effect.
Wrong about this one, even the original 1.10 AI doesn't have complete knowledge of the map. And unlike humans 1.10 skirmish AI has to reveal the same map over and over again every game before it can spot oil resources for example.1° She know the map and don't loss time in search of Oil Points and... you.
As an additional cheat it gets some free units if you start with "Advanced Bases". Not sure why Pumpkin did this, maybe we should just get rid of it, it is kind of annoying for us humans to find a swarm of AI units happily waiting for your rush inside AI base.
Jarms, how many AIs do you actually play against?
The most common mistake people make is that they wall themselves in the base and let AI get all the oil resources on the map. With so much oil it can overrun almost any player. You have to secure as much oil as possible and as soon as possible.
Another common problem is that many players don't build mobile units, instead they rely entirely on defenses. With a bunch of fast hover tanks you can afford having less defenses around your oil resources and spend the power for something else.
And of course you have to know the tech tree. Once you get the power module and power upgrades you can just happily pump your units preparing your attack. And once you have tracks, heavy mg, lancer, cobra body life becomes so much easier.
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Re: Easy AI?
Seems really hard to accomplish those things...
I'm playing against one AI, if you asked. I know what to build, how to build and where. I build both mobile and stationary units as fast as I can (and as much as my wallet gives
). I advance to as heavy units as possible (full tracks, light cannon or heavier etc) and start mass production and build at least 2 facilities since the units are produced desperately slow. When expanding, I stumble upon these problems:
1) if I expand too much, I'll get a serious contact with enemy in record time and can't defend all of my oil posts and rally my tanks to the important areas.
2) if I expand too slowly, I'll be wrecked due to slow advancement.
3) if I relied more to mobile units, they'll break like a cracker to hostile defenses or raids.
So, like, I'm in paradox! psh, great...
I'm playing against one AI, if you asked. I know what to build, how to build and where. I build both mobile and stationary units as fast as I can (and as much as my wallet gives
). I advance to as heavy units as possible (full tracks, light cannon or heavier etc) and start mass production and build at least 2 facilities since the units are produced desperately slow. When expanding, I stumble upon these problems:1) if I expand too much, I'll get a serious contact with enemy in record time and can't defend all of my oil posts and rally my tanks to the important areas.
2) if I expand too slowly, I'll be wrecked due to slow advancement.
3) if I relied more to mobile units, they'll break like a cracker to hostile defenses or raids.
So, like, I'm in paradox! psh, great...
Re: Easy AI?
Light Gun. Sorry, it's light cannonsthemousemaster wrote: Erm... what the heck is an LG?
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Watermelon
- Code contributor
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- Joined: 08 Oct 2006, 09:37
Re: Easy AI?
LC is the worst weapon in wz imnho...even the vanilla mg pwns the LC,with the same prop and body...D.Durand wrote: Light Gun. Sorry, it's light cannons
edit:I think the reason why the AI seems to be so hard is because the AI uses efficient design and weapon/body combo,and the wz doesnt have detailed info such as HP/damage/Rate of fire/armor etc when a unit is selected.so when a novice human player uses the 'underpowered' weapons/body/propulsion(e.g:wheeled cobra light cannon) to fight against the AI's efficient ones(tracks viper heavy mg) from templates.txt,the results of such match-up will become quite obvious...
Last edited by Watermelon on 21 Jan 2007, 19:33, edited 1 time in total.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.
Re: Easy AI?
LC kick ass against MG light vehicles. This night, four LG viper tank crushed a rush of more than 20 MG viper tank... It's always the case : LC bunker well placed stop efficiently early rush (better than MG). Only the Hard Point LC is worthless.
In fact, i even use the LC bunker late in the game (yes, with the max in concrete and structure tech) for cover lancer bunkers and emplacements. And i always play with 7 opponents and the "AI cursor at the end right".
I don't say against player, but against AI, LC worth it. True, i have played a lot of games before discover how to use LC efficiently and his "no-useless", but by know i can say you i use it, and he worth the cost. Only in the T3 the powerfull weapons and bodies can negate him.
In fact, i even use the LC bunker late in the game (yes, with the max in concrete and structure tech) for cover lancer bunkers and emplacements. And i always play with 7 opponents and the "AI cursor at the end right".
I don't say against player, but against AI, LC worth it. True, i have played a lot of games before discover how to use LC efficiently and his "no-useless", but by know i can say you i use it, and he worth the cost. Only in the T3 the powerfull weapons and bodies can negate him.
Re: Easy AI?
Although D.Durand swears by it I wouldn't rely on Light Canon, in fact I never use it, it simply causes almost no damage. I also rerely use Medium Cannon, and just go straight to the Heavy Cannon and Lancer after Heavy MG.I advance to as heavy units as possible (full tracks, light cannon or heavier etc) and start mass production and build at least 2 facilities since the units are produced desperately slow.
2 factories might not be enough, if you can't afford more you probably have to get more map control to get your hands on oil resources. If factories are too slow you can get production upgrades btw.
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Re: Easy AI?
Medium & Heavy cannons don't exist on bunkers.
You are often attacked before to have Medium. If you relie only on MG at this moment...
You are often attacked before to have Medium. If you relie only on MG at this moment...
Re: Easy AI?
In this moment I rely on lancer bunkers.D.Durand wrote: Medium & Heavy cannons don't exist on bunkers.
You are often attacked before to have Medium. If you relie only on MG at this moment...
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themousemaster
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Re: Easy AI?
I'll give you some tips on dealing with AI, but remember: ONLY AI. Humans will ream you 9 ways from Tuesday if you try this on them.
1) AI's shoot at the closest targets; as such, you can secure oil derricks for the better part of an hour by simply putting 4 bunkers around them in an adjacent X formation; enemies wont fire at the oil, and although mg bunkers wont kill anything after the first 10 minutes, as long as the oil keps pumping, its mission accomplished.
2) LC's make fine bunkers, as mentioned, due to a lack of other bunker types; however, LC vehicles are a waste of cash. Even if they do has some edge against vehicles, the fact is they don't do enough damage vs defenses and buildings to be useful compared to other weapons.
3) Don't mass MG vehicles. Build yourself just a COUPLE to save some money (using them in tandem with some MG bunkers to hold your base), and quick-tech to both the cobra body and the HMG. Proceed to make a mere 6 HMGCobraTracks, and those 6, if gotten before the AI researches Improved Hardcrete MK2, can literally tear a base apart without needing repairs (basically, get them ready by the 12-14 minute mark, earlier if you have a lot of ground to cover to get to your opponent). If it's 1v1, you win. If not, then having 2 bases worth of oil belonging to you will give you the boost you need to win (in addition to the X-bunkered neutral oils you grab). If you are in a resource pinch, just X-bunker the other bases's derricks; if not, lock down base#2 for future use as a VTOL staging area.
4) Tech Improved hardcrete, supercrete, plascrete, and plasteel like a madman. The AI seems to have some fervent hatred of anti-bunker weaponry (I may have seen an AI get a bunker buster 1 time, and their only flame weapons are ViperWheels), so putting even a defense as crummy as MG bunkers in FRONT of big-gun hardpoints will make for a defense that is rarely brought down.
5) Pick a weapon type and run with it. Going MG's -> assault -> Twin Assault -> laser weaponry is viable, as is Minipod -> lancer class / Ripple rocket, as is cannon -> gauss / mortar -> howitzer. HOWEVER, don't do more than 1 major tech tree at once. As long as you stay ahead of the curve (Make sure you have assault guns when they get Medium bodies, Twin Assault before they get heavies, and Lasers before they get Tiger+), then even anti-personnel weapons will suffice.
6) If all else fails, resort to walls. The AI has a tendancy to pick a target, and then follow the "easiest path" it can calculate to drive straight to it. If there is no path to it (I.E. the target it picks is totally unaccessible due to blocking paths), the AI will not move.
1) AI's shoot at the closest targets; as such, you can secure oil derricks for the better part of an hour by simply putting 4 bunkers around them in an adjacent X formation; enemies wont fire at the oil, and although mg bunkers wont kill anything after the first 10 minutes, as long as the oil keps pumping, its mission accomplished.
2) LC's make fine bunkers, as mentioned, due to a lack of other bunker types; however, LC vehicles are a waste of cash. Even if they do has some edge against vehicles, the fact is they don't do enough damage vs defenses and buildings to be useful compared to other weapons.
3) Don't mass MG vehicles. Build yourself just a COUPLE to save some money (using them in tandem with some MG bunkers to hold your base), and quick-tech to both the cobra body and the HMG. Proceed to make a mere 6 HMGCobraTracks, and those 6, if gotten before the AI researches Improved Hardcrete MK2, can literally tear a base apart without needing repairs (basically, get them ready by the 12-14 minute mark, earlier if you have a lot of ground to cover to get to your opponent). If it's 1v1, you win. If not, then having 2 bases worth of oil belonging to you will give you the boost you need to win (in addition to the X-bunkered neutral oils you grab). If you are in a resource pinch, just X-bunker the other bases's derricks; if not, lock down base#2 for future use as a VTOL staging area.
4) Tech Improved hardcrete, supercrete, plascrete, and plasteel like a madman. The AI seems to have some fervent hatred of anti-bunker weaponry (I may have seen an AI get a bunker buster 1 time, and their only flame weapons are ViperWheels), so putting even a defense as crummy as MG bunkers in FRONT of big-gun hardpoints will make for a defense that is rarely brought down.
5) Pick a weapon type and run with it. Going MG's -> assault -> Twin Assault -> laser weaponry is viable, as is Minipod -> lancer class / Ripple rocket, as is cannon -> gauss / mortar -> howitzer. HOWEVER, don't do more than 1 major tech tree at once. As long as you stay ahead of the curve (Make sure you have assault guns when they get Medium bodies, Twin Assault before they get heavies, and Lasers before they get Tiger+), then even anti-personnel weapons will suffice.
6) If all else fails, resort to walls. The AI has a tendancy to pick a target, and then follow the "easiest path" it can calculate to drive straight to it. If there is no path to it (I.E. the target it picks is totally unaccessible due to blocking paths), the AI will not move.