Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

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AnDy-RyuuJin
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Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by AnDy-RyuuJin » 02 Dec 2008, 14:22

Hy,

Straight to the point.....
I whant to make " Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns " but: i dont know how to improve the grafics of the original, dont know to make a camping and the edit world program doesn't work and the user interface i whant to change it .........i could use some help !!!!

So anyone who knows the programs, or tutorials it whould help if you would post them....

stuf that the game whould have:
- new tech (alien tech :D )
- new units (something diffrent from the tank`s, cyborg`s and vtol`s)
- some allies and a lot enemyes



( sorry for my bad english :D ) !!!!!
F**k is the World

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Giel » 02 Dec 2008, 19:18

Try to search the forum and wiki/manual.

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manaze
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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by manaze » 03 Dec 2008, 10:11

I suggest improving 2100 whilst 2200 is being created.

Tutorials are available for everytype of editing assisting u need, search the forums.

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Skrim
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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Skrim » 03 Dec 2008, 11:25

The tutorials are on the wiki, yes. Good to see someone who actually wants to work on improving the game.
stuf that the game whould have:
- new tech (alien tech :D )
- new units (something diffrent from the tank`s, cyborg`s and vtol`s)
- some allies and a lot enemyes
Anyway, if you've noticed, the tech in WZ2100 is more or less realistic - the machine guns, flamethrowers, cannons, rockets, missiles, bombs and artillery do exist in reality, and the mass drivers(railguns & coilguns) are in an experimental stage.

The energy weapon family(i.e, the lasers), the "twin" weapons, the Plasmite Flamer/Bomb, the Laser Satellite, and the HellStorm are unrealistic, but they're a small fraction of the total variety.
If you consider the game's "in the future" time-frame, the energy weapons could be re-termed as high-powered very high-tech electrolasers, the HellStorm's weight could be doubled, the "twin" weapons could have their weight increased by 50%, and the Plasmite weapons can be written off as some kind of more-powerful futuristic incendiary devices with a cool name.
The LasSat is the only thing left which is simply a case of the developers not doing their research. A satellite with a large Gauss cannon firing missile-like self-propelled homing darts would've done the job realistically and still feel like 2085 technology, but no, lasers are cooler. And the LasSat charge-up sequence in the FMVs is pure hogwash. A real laser would be invisible in space, and a weapon-grade anti-missile laser would most definitely be invisible in the atmosphere too.

Rant aside, keep this in mind when designing your alien technology. Try going here for ideas.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by themousemaster » 03 Dec 2008, 16:22

Skrim wrote: The LasSat is the only thing left which is simply a case of the developers not doing their research. A satellite with a large Gauss cannon firing missile-like self-propelled homing darts would've done the job realistically and still feel like 2085 technology, but no, lasers are cooler. And the LasSat charge-up sequence in the FMVs is pure hogwash. A real laser would be invisible in space, and a weapon-grade anti-missile laser would most definitely be invisible in the atmosphere too.
For someone who visits "TvTropes", I would like to direct you to the "rule of cool" page.

Only the most die-hard realists are irked by a visible laser when it otherwise shouldn't be... which, while that's fine, you realize most of the rest of us don't fit that bill ;p.

As far as an orbital missile-launcher, while that would be more realistic, it suffers from lag. The concept behind WZ's "superweapon" (which, I might add, given how game-ending most other game's superweapons are, I like this one's better), is that if truly launched from 50 miles space, would not reach the target with the "instantaneous" effect of the current weapon.

Not that that would be a bad thing either, just understand that such a change would be part of altering the "super-space-laser" to a more realistic stance.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Zarel » 04 Dec 2008, 09:59

Lasers are viable modern weapons. Ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRESTRIKE

The only thing I dislike is how Pumpkin made Warzone's lasers projectile weapons. A laser satellite isn't all that far-fetched, either. The only really unrealistic weapon in Warzone is the Nexus Link. Most of the unrealistic things in Warzone are things such as trucks and mobile repair turrets.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Raem_Lylar » 04 Dec 2008, 11:25

Zarel wrote:Lasers are viable modern weapons. Ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRESTRIKE

The only thing I dislike is how Pumpkin made Warzone's lasers projectile weapons. A laser satellite isn't all that far-fetched, either. The only really unrealistic weapon in Warzone is the Nexus Link. Most of the unrealistic things in Warzone are things such as trucks and mobile repair turrets.
Trucks and mobile repair turrets can be defined as systems that take existing molecules and change/rearrange them to build things, in 100 years that could very well be possible. You could also explain it to be carbon nano bot technology which we as a species are already exploring.

Light molecules can be large and heavy when extremely energized causing them to move slower than the speed of light, these would pack a bigger punch than current laser light technology, thus making them more appealing. Heavy extremely energized photons will glow thus giving them a color, that color is changed while passing through any focus lenses that the weapon may have.

The NEXUS link is not unrealistic assuming the target is and can be fully automated, it can be taken over by a virus, WZ seems to suggest that all vehicles are unmanned and so are the structures excluding the HQ where everything is controlled and handled.
The nexus link turret should however have an invisible link to the target, in WZ it does not.

I am not insulting you by posting this, i am merely engaging in an intelligent debate.
AnDy-RyuuJin wrote:Hy,

stuf that the game whould have:
- new tech (alien tech :D )
- new units (something diffrent from the tank`s, cyborg`s and vtol`s)
- some allies and a lot enemyes


This sounds like a WZ fanfic i read about a mission to mars 20 years after the projects victory against nexus.

TIMELINE (rough)

It goes that the project needs to go to mars to mine water as the water on earth is inedible.
NEXUS launched an invasion to mars as soon as it was defeated to build up a force to attack the project for revenge.
But nexus discovered mars had already been colonized by aliens with walker legs and anti-grave as propulsion for their vehicles.
NEXUS then proceeds to use the intruder virus to take over the automated alien mining operation.
The project arrives on mars 20 years after their victory and discovers the alien presence, they are instantly hostile towards the project.
The project then learns that nexus had already came to mars and taken over the alien colony.
NEXUS wipes out the project on mars and earth. THE END

My avatar is the emblem of that alien WZ faction called the Lylari, i want to mod WZ to include that faction but it is impossible...

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by EvilGuru » 04 Dec 2008, 13:22

Raem_Lylar wrote:Light molecules can be large and heavy when extremely energized causing them to move slower than the speed of light, these would pack a bigger punch than current laser light technology, thus making them more appealing. Heavy extremely energized photons will glow thus giving them a color, that color is changed while passing through any focus lenses that the weapon may have.
There is no such thing as a light molecule. A molecule is something composed of two or more atoms. The 'particle' associated with light is the photon. While photons do have momentum (which, incidentally, is the reason the comets have trails even though they are travelling through the vacuum of space) they have no rest mass.

Photons will never 'glow' or emit light — they are light. The only reason we see things is because photons come into contact with the photosensitive cells in our eyes. Therefore, in a vacuum photons from a parallel light source (e.g. a laser) will not be visible. (How can we see them if they never come into contact with our eyes.)

The only reason we can see laser light in the lab is because the photons have the right (quantised) frequency to either:
  1. Excite the electrons in an Oxygen/Nitrogen/Argon/... molecule, resulting in the eventual emission of another photon. This will be of a lower frequency.
  2. Be scattered by a atom/molecule in the air, resulting in change in direction. If this direction is towards that of our eyes, we can see it. (Assuming the wavelength of the photon is in the visible spectrum.)
Any change in colour as a result of focusing it with a lens is (nearly always) undesirable. The reason for this is because the change in colour must (assuming no extra energy is added) be towards the red end of the spectrum, i.e., the wavelength increases and the frequency decreases. Since the energy associated with a photon is proportional to its frequency those with a lower frequency have less energy. (Hence why gamma- and x-rays are much more dangerous, they have a significantly higher frequency than visible light and therefore are more able to cause damage to cells/lattices).

If you want to take issue with the lasers in Warzone then consider this. Light travels at the speed of light, 3e8 metres per second, or 671,080,887 miles an hour. So even if the light was at the correct wavelength/frequency to be scattered it would still be a moot point as the time between the light being emitted and coming into contact with the target would be so small we would never have any chance of seeing it anyway.

However, something like this is, in my opinion, a valid use of the artistic license. Lasers which you can't see and hit almost instantly does not make for fun gameplay.

Regards, Freddie.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Per » 04 Dec 2008, 15:53

Lasers could be continuous rather than shots fired through the air, which means they would show up as a straight line that is held steady at the target for a few seconds. Some other RTS games do this.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Skrim » 04 Dec 2008, 19:43

@Zarel & Mousemaster,

If you look at lasers being developed, they're only being favored over projectile weapons for two reasons:
-To kill missiles and artillery shells by causing their fuel to explode or their airframe to fall apart. For example, YAL-1 Airborne Laser and THEL/M-THEL.
-To precision-kill insurgents with no collateral damage. Still useless against any sort of vehicle(esp. armored vehicles). For example, Boeing ATL and Firestrike.

Even the LasSat is a countermeasure device designed to shoot down ICBMs, which travel in the thin high atmosphere. The seriously unrealistic thing, apart from the laser being visible and having a stupid-looking charge-up sequence, is how it can be so powerful against ground targets, which:
-Are much farther away than a high-flying ICBM.
-Are tougher than an ICBM.
-Are defended by more and denser layers of atmosphere.

You can't really argue that NASDA had anti-ground capability considered when they designed the LasSats, since:
-It would be much easier to use a large Gauss cannon, which would need a lot less energy and not be such a hideous cooling nightmare, as well as being more effective against ground targets.
-They already had serious anti-ground capability in the form of space-to-ground missiles armed with *cough* thermonuclear warheads *cough*.

Against armor, projectiles are simply better.

Now, consider a very high-tech, very high-power electrolaser(you could call it a particle beam or whatever).
-It would be visible, like lightning.
-It would do thermal damage twice over in rapid succession(once by laser, and again by electric shock).
-It would fry electronics. Bad news for those extremely electronics-dependent cyborgs and VTOL aircraft, and to a lesser extent for ground vehicles.
That's my idea of a good futuristic SciFi weapon for ground/air combat, along with mass drivers and high-tech missiles.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Although the factories and research centers can be explained, the trucks and repair turrets/facilities are a perfect example of Applied Phlebotinum.
Factories can be accounted for by saying:
-1. That the game time does run faster than real time. Even in combat, real 120mm cannons, 155mm howitzers, etc. don't load that quickly.
-2. That the cyborg powersuits, vehicle bodies, vehicle turrets and ground propulsion are all modular and prepared from before(which they are).
-3. That the time taken to build a vehicle is actually the time taken to bolt the 3 parts together and shove it out the door, in compliance with point 2 above.
-4. That the time taken to build a cyborg is actually the time taken to get the guy into the powersuit and bolt on the weapon.
-5. That points 2 and 3 are actually confirmed in one of the videos, which shows a pre-built turret and wheels being robotically bolted on to a pre-built body before the completed vehicle is dropped on to the ground and driven out the factory door.
-6. VTOL construction ought to be more complex, and this is properly represented in game since:
-VTOLs have a much higher tech requirement.
-VTOLs need their own separate full-sized factory.
-VTOLs need their own factory production upgrade techs.
-VTOLs, even after all this, are still constructed slower than ground units.

Research Centers can be accounted for by saying:
-1. Same first point as with the Factories, that time moves faster in the game.
-2. The artifacts are rather comprehensive, with working examples of the tech and information about it.
-3. The robotic "Research Brains" are either DNA computers or quantum computers, or both. Both of these technologies are in an early research phase.
-4. Any and all required facilities needed for researching the artifact are present in the complex.

Trucks and repair turrets, though, get no such explanation, apart from being extreme whacked-out nanophlebotinum, which brings up the question of why such awesome levels of tech aren't there anywhere else in the game. They're simply an acceptable break from reality. I, for one, wouldn't want my repair facilities running at realistic rates.
Trucks and mobile repair turrets can be defined as systems that take existing molecules and change/rearrange them to build things, in 100 years that could very well be possible. You could also explain it to be carbon nano bot technology which we as a species are already exploring.

Light molecules can be large and heavy when extremely energized causing them to move slower than the speed of light, these would pack a bigger punch than current laser light technology, thus making them more appealing. Heavy extremely energized photons will glow thus giving them a color, that color is changed while passing through any focus lenses that the weapon may have.

The NEXUS link is not unrealistic assuming the target is and can be fully automated, it can be taken over by a virus, WZ seems to suggest that all vehicles are unmanned and so are the structures excluding the HQ where everything is controlled and handled.
The nexus link turret should however have an invisible link to the target, in WZ it does not.

I am not insulting you by posting this, i am merely engaging in an intelligent debate.
If trucks and repair turrets have such awesome technology, why don't we start out with nano-disassembler weapons that rapidly rip an enemy apart at the molecular level? Why do we use 200-year old machineguns instead?

The carbon nanotechnology we are currently exploring is mainly a form of material sciences that results in mundane stuff with better properties, i.e, better crack resistance, better tensile strength, better conductivity, etc. Carbon fiber used to make Formula 1 cars is amazingly light, strong and flexible, but when you look at it, it's nothing but a black plasticky thing and not some awesome nano-scale machine.
Actual nanomachines in the near future will be mainly based around biomimicry, using techniques that nature has already developed in microorganisms, and then applying them to the tasks we want, like targeted medicines, immunity nanobots etc.

And yes, Per said it right as far as photons are concerned. Light does not exist as "molecules". We can't even detect the existence of a photon until it hits our eyes or detectors.

In WZ, units do not seem to be fully automated except for trucks and repair vehicles, since they gain experience as they or other units under their command gain kills. This experience makes them more accurate, which is understandable, but also seems to make them tougher, which is inexplicable except for VTOLs(where the crew can learn better evasive maneuvers). You could say that they are remote controlled or synaptic linked(after the tech is recovered in the Alpha Campaign), but that doesn't explain how an experienced crew is also lost when a unit is lost.
You could also say that the units are controlled by "Brains" like the ones in the research center, which adapt with experience. But then, they should be able to share this experience with other units of the same type and increase the experience of all units of that type, which they don't, except for commanders and sensor units. Even then, the cyborgs are explicitly said to be humans in powersuits which they are synaptic-linked to. The only way to take them over would be to hack the synaptic link and make it take orders from you instead of the wearer's mind, which would be a rather scary experience for the troop in the powersuit.

So I conclude this:
-Trucks & Repair Vehicles are unmanned and remote controlled.
-Combat Vehicles are unmanned and controlled by artificial Brains.
-Commanders and Sensor Vehicles are manned(I've not seen them hacked yet).
-VTOLs are unmanned and controlled by artificial Brains as well as remote control.
-Cyborgs are manned but are synaptic link dependent.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Zarel » 04 Dec 2008, 22:14

Raem_Lylar wrote:The NEXUS link is not unrealistic assuming the target is and can be fully automated, it can be taken over by a virus, WZ seems to suggest that all vehicles are unmanned and so are the structures excluding the HQ where everything is controlled and handled.
The nexus link turret should however have an invisible link to the target, in WZ it does not.
The unrealistic part is that a beam should be involved at any step, or that any vulnerability to hacking couldn't be concurrent, or why anyone with such technology couldn't take over all enemy computer systems at once, or that any vulnerability to such a virus wouldn't easily fixed and deployed everywhere instantly. In general, depiction of computer hacking in fiction is absolutely horrid in terms of realism.
EvilGuru wrote:If you want to take issue with the lasers in Warzone then consider this. Light travels at the speed of light, 3e8 metres per second, or 671,080,887 miles an hour. So even if the light was at the correct wavelength/frequency to be scattered it would still be a moot point as the time between the light being emitted and coming into contact with the target would be so small we would never have any chance of seeing it anyway.

However, something like this is, in my opinion, a valid use of the artistic license. Lasers which you can't see and hit almost instantly does not make for fun gameplay.
Some modern lasers are visible. Light travels at the speed of light, but there are usually air particles along that path, so the beam itself is still visible in atmosphere. Look at how other games handle lasers, or even how 1.11 handles lasers in Command Turret, Nexus Link, and Stormbringer (why they didn't implement the other lasers like that, I don't know).

Basically, frame 1:
[tank] [tank]

frame 2:
[tank] -------------- [tank]

frame 3:
[tank] [tank]

So the beam is instantaneous, but visible.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by EvilGuru » 05 Dec 2008, 00:19

Zarel wrote:Some modern lasers are visible. Light travels at the speed of light, but there are usually air particles along that path, so the beam itself is still visible in atmosphere. Look at how other games handle lasers, or even how 1.11 handles lasers in Command Turret, Nexus Link, and Stormbringer (why they didn't implement the other lasers like that, I don't know).
They are, if the frequency/wavelength is correct. (Those in the green region of the spectrum, 520-570nm are often visible.)

However, if the pulse lasts for only a few femtoseconds (1e-15 seconds) then there is no way that it will be visible — irrespective of the frequency/wavelength or the medium through which it is travelling. This is the case for petawatt lasers currently in existence.

Regards, Freddie.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by psychopompos » 05 Dec 2008, 02:24

lasers, will not be used.
especially not the frequencies viable to humans
your going toward gamma rays for working lasers.
microwaving infantry & as counter-measures to missiles using a similar cooking idea.

what they should be is beam weapons.
stop underestimating the damage potential of slamming fast moving mass into other mass.
which is what beam weaps do, same as rail guns, but with smaller, faster projectiles & lots of them.

the lassat in wz i like though, it seems close, at high energy, a laser could affect the atmosphere in a similar way to lightning.
+ it has 0 travel time.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by Skrim » 05 Dec 2008, 11:33

Zarel wrote: The unrealistic part is that a beam should be involved at any step, or that any vulnerability to hacking couldn't be concurrent, or why anyone with such technology couldn't take over all enemy computer systems at once, or that any vulnerability to such a virus wouldn't easily fixed and deployed everywhere instantly. In general, depiction of computer hacking in fiction is absolutely horrid in terms of realism.
Indeed. I remember, in one of the videos, while the briefing voice was saying "unfortunately, we have been unable to determine it's origin as it has eradicated all traces of itself", the video shows several microchips exploding. Er... yeah. In another video, it's shown that a bunch of green microchips turn red as NEXUS infects them during the Collapse, before they all explode as a result of the EMP from the nuke strikes.

It's just ridiculous.

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Re: Warzone 2120 - Nexus Returns

Post by themousemaster » 07 Dec 2008, 20:16

Skrim wrote:Indeed. I remember, in one of the videos, while the briefing voice was saying "unfortunately, we have been unable to determine it's origin as it has eradicated all traces of itself", the video shows several microchips exploding. Er... yeah. In another video, it's shown that a bunch of green microchips turn red as NEXUS infects them during the Collapse, before they all explode as a result of the EMP from the nuke strikes.

It's just ridiculous.

I'm pretty certain that was just a visual indicator to the viewer. I mean, obvious physical impossibility aside, the game has to represent the infection/retraction *somehow*, right?

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