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Postby themousemaster » 10 Nov 2006, 18:48

I've been following these boards for a while now, and I felt I had to chime in on some things... but to do so, I of course had to register and adtivate :).

Anyway, I've been a fan of WZ since it came out.  That said, I've always played it from the CD's... I run patch 1.10, but have not tried the releases found on this website.  (If any of what I am about to ask is no longer valid for the 2.XX releases, please enlighten me).

Before I go into the thread I wish to respond in, I figure I need to ask a few questions first to make sure I don't end up repeated common information.  So if anyone could answer these, I'd be greatful.


(Oh, and if all of these questions can be answered by a single document, please point me to it.  I read the wiki entries on the wz2100.net site, but they didn't help much)


1st:  is the current gameplay any different than it was back in the 1.X days?  I know that a "multi-turret" design is being worked on, and that a brand new AI is being developed, but has the interface changed any since the commedical release?

2nd:  Have there been any changes to the damage output and multipliers of the individual weapons?  Like, have Minipods had their damage amplified?  or Scourge rockets reduced?

3rd:  I read the chart of damage multipliers, and found that there is a multiplier for AA weapons against non-air targets.  Has it changed such that AA can fire at ground targets now?

4th:  There are Command turrets mark 1 - 4.  However, when I research them, it does not increase body points, armor, speed, number of commandable units, or change the cost any.  What do the higher levels of Command turret do?

5th:  what is the order of operation in terms of damage?  For example:  Lets say weapon X does 40 damage, has a 2X multiplier (like, artillery VS cyborg).  And now lets say that the Cyborg has 30 armor.  Is the final damage (40 - 30) X 2 = 20, or (40 X 2) - 30 = 50?

6th:  I read that the current accuracy calculation follows an equation that results in a "sure miss" or "sure hit" formula.  However, I know for Artillery rounds, that is not true; I've moved out of the way of incoming rocket artillery and howitzer shells often.  Does the "sure hit" formula only apply to direct fire weapons, or perhaps only to multiplayer maps?

7th:  Speaking of artillery, I've noticed from various tests that the accuracy of artillery, regardless of unit experience and upgrades, is heavily dependant on location.  Artillery that is on a lower plane of elevation, firing at anything that is at a 45Degree angle (NW, NE, SW, SE) from it, will never "hit" (though a "miss" might end up catching the target in it's blast radius, if the "miss" flies in the correct direction).  It will always land prematurely if fired "accurately".  Shots in a horizontal direction (E or W) have the same problem, but usually land close enough that the howitzer blast radius still deals damage.  N or S shots (provided they aren't trying to hit something through a mountainside) will usually land their shots.  Is this only in the singleplayer campaign, or is there some code reason for it?


8th:  More on artillery:  I know (and think it's great from a realistic and tactical standpoint) that stuff on the backside of a mountain may end up having incoming artillery shots hit the mountainside, instead of going through and hitting them.  However, the "shells getting interrupted on a mountainside" aspect only seems to be checked for shells already on a declining angle towards the ground; artillery that has yet to reach it's apex ("outgoing", if you will) seems to be able to just fly right through solid objects.  Is that part of the design?





Any answers would be appreciated.  I very much wish to add some input on a few of the threads, but if I don't know the answers to the above questions, everything I have to say may end up being a waste of time :)

EDIT(DevUrandom): Fixed all bold.
Last edited by DevUrandom on 11 Nov 2006, 13:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just signed up.

Postby Watermelon » 10 Nov 2006, 19:57

1.I never played 1.x.x before,but I think the interface was untouched between 1.x.x and 2.0.x.

2.same as 1.

3.no they cannot attack ground targets

4.I dont know what higher 'mark' of CommandTurret does either.

5.I think it's (40x2)-30,since the armor is some kind of threshold against either kinetic or thermal according to the damage calc function.

6.the old 'sure miss' and 'sure hit' apply to both sp/mp and both direct/indirect weapon:In old hit system,the projectile you see is a 'dummy',the result was pre-calculated in that 'DICE' comparsion.There is 1 exception in old hit system though - the homing weapon used a simplified 'real' hit system.

7.prolly it's because the way the projectile system works,the proj_InFlightIndirectFunc function only uses Velocity XY(2D velocity) to estimate the time required from 'attacker positin' to 'target position',it explodes whenever [2d velocity squared] * [time required] > [distance squared].With certain 'shoot angle',it might explode prematurely due to this limitation.

8.there is check against 'map height' in proj_InFlightDirectFunc/proj_InFightIndirectFunc(both get executed every gameloop) to detect collision with terrain,so it shouldnt look like that unless there is a bug in these functions.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.
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Re: Just signed up.

Postby themousemaster » 11 Nov 2006, 00:30

Watermelon wrote:6.the old 'sure miss' and 'sure hit' apply to both sp/mp and both direct/indirect weapon:In old hit system,the projectile you see is a 'dummy',the result was pre-calculated in that 'DICE' comparsion.There is 1 exception in old hit system though - the homing weapon used a simplified 'real' hit system.

8.there is check against 'map height' in proj_InFlightDirectFunc/proj_InFightIndirectFunc(both get executed every gameloop) to detect collision with terrain,so it shouldnt look like that unless there is a bug in these functions.


I don't quite understand these two responses... 

For #6, I know the projectile is a dummy display, but I have, in fact, run tests where I have gotten out of the way of indirect fire weapons (well, howitzers and rockets, mortars are too short range to have enough time to escape).  And what do you mean the homing weapon?  (The test you can run is to set up a line of howitzers, and run a Bug-hover horizontally across them at near-maximum range.  Most of the shells, fired "accurately", will land behind the hoverbug, doing no damage... but on the offchance that one "misses" and is fired way in front of the hoverbug, it will end up knocking the heck out of it on landing)

And for #8, its harder for me to say... I've seen projectiles go through mountains on the way "up" and still hit their targets (I used that technique to do a lot of killing on mountanous terrain while shielding my indirects).  If you would like to see it yourself, there is a MP map on the orginial CDs, maybe its in the 2.X revival project... I think it's called SK-Mountain, where if you start in the top left, you have a nice valley just to the right of you where you can set up indirects flush against the Eastern mountain wall at about mid-map (which extends up for the next 3 tiles) to blast the top-right player's base while taking noindirect damage in return.
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Re: Just signed up.

Postby Watermelon » 11 Nov 2006, 09:55

themousemaster wrote:I don't quite understand these two responses... 

For #6, I know the projectile is a dummy display, but I have, in fact, run tests where I have gotten out of the way of indirect fire weapons (well, howitzers and rockets, mortars are too short range to have enough time to escape).  And what do you mean the homing weapon?  (The test you can run is to set up a line of howitzers, and run a Bug-hover horizontally across them at near-maximum range.  Most of the shells, fired "accurately", will land behind the hoverbug, doing no damage... but on the offchance that one "misses" and is fired way in front of the hoverbug, it will end up knocking the heck out of it on landing)

And for #8, its harder for me to say... I've seen projectiles go through mountains on the way "up" and still hit their targets (I used that technique to do a lot of killing on mountanous terrain while shielding my indirects).  If you would like to see it yourself, there is a MP map on the orginial CDs, maybe its in the 2.X revival project... I think it's called SK-Mountain, where if you start in the top left, you have a nice valley just to the right of you where you can set up indirects flush against the Eastern mountain wall at about mid-map (which extends up for the next 3 tiles) to blast the top-right player's base while taking noindirect damage in return.

#6 in old hit system,a 'missed' projectile always has a noticeable 'miss offset',which means the destination is a few tiles away from the target position,you cannot 'dodge' a projectile in old system,maybe your fast moving bug makes the mortar attacker's visibility to it temprarily unavailable,thus reducing the chance of hit.

#8 dont know,maybe it's map-specific problem(some tiles' actual height is lower than it looks).
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.
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Re: Just signed up.

Postby themousemaster » 13 Nov 2006, 14:46

Thanks for the replies.  Any idea where I can find any other answers?  (like #4 and 7)
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