Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

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Martyr Ops
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by Martyr Ops » 08 Nov 2007, 07:39

Serman wrote: since there havent been any updates recently, I assume you're working on something that's meant to blow our minds.  :D
I'm sorry to rain on your parade but... Grim decided to quit all forums because some users on an other forum said he was flaming spamming ect. but from what I hear he was just posting his wz2100 gfx.

:(

Though he said you could e-mail him (there should be a link to e-mail him on his account profile)

~Martyr Ops

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Rman Virgil
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by Rman Virgil » 08 Nov 2007, 08:06

Martyr Ops wrote: I'm sorry to rain on your parade but... Grim decided to quit all forums because some users on an other forum said he was flaming spamming ect. but from what I hear he was just posting his wz2100 gfx.

:(

Though he said you could e-mail him (there should be a link to e-mail him on his account profile)

~Martyr Ops
* Actually this is what happened:

* Grim posted some of his work with comments at the WZ Strategy Planet site. Nobody there had a problem with what he posted - in fact, it was a joyous reception.

* Where the issues arose were with some of the WRP crew on the WZ IRC channel. Basically they got their jocks all in a jangle 'cause there was some ref to them as Linux guys. Tempest in a teapot really which was later smoothed out as far as the miss-understandings.

* Grim is very much continuing his work with an unwavering dedication.

* You will all see it eventually.... just not as part of the WRP release (they choose not to do what was necessary to support it in the code base some time ago).

* However... there is another WZ code-base that completley supports this quality GFX (plus a bunch more mind-blowing enhancements)

* This work will be Win-only when released.... however, it's been made such that the WRP could port it to Linux & Mac OS if they so want.....(but, like I said, their Win ver cannot support any of these enhancements)....

* So fans of Grim's work, hang tight.... the time will come in the near future when you will experience a WZ that will literally rock your RTS game world. There are other peeps deeply involved in making this possible but for now they prefer to remain anonymous.

* Stay tuned.

- Cheers, RV :)
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Kayiaxo
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by Kayiaxo » 08 Nov 2007, 21:52

I was also confused about what really happened and thanks for clearing it up RV.
I'm also glad to hear that Grim is still working on his GFX and I hope to see something of it in wz soon.
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Credits to Kacen for making the image.

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DevUrandom
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by DevUrandom » 08 Nov 2007, 22:16

I think this is the wrong location for overzealous advertisement...
You may tell us what you do in whatever shiny way you want, but what we can or cannot do and for which OS is to be decided by us.

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Rman Virgil
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by Rman Virgil » 08 Nov 2007, 23:45

DevUrandom wrote:
I think this is the wrong location for overzealous advertisement...
You may tell us what you do in whatever shiny way you want, but what we can or cannot do and for which OS is to be decided by us.
* Huh ? I certainly wasn't telling you what to do ? That would be absurd, foolish, irrational, moronic, stupid, retarded, dweebish, & a complete waste of time / energy - none of which am I inclined or prone to in even in the teeny-weeniest sense (at least I like to think that's the case but heck like the old Chinese proverb goes - "Am I man dreaming he's a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming it's a man ?")

* As far as "over-zealous advertising" - take a chill-pill bud 'cause WTF your saying sounds  wack.

* I'm merely discussing Wz in the round & comprehensively as I have since early 1999.

* Unless you've instituted some draconian censorship policy I'm unaware of - well then I think I can speak here as I've done everywhere on the net & in the brick & mortar world  since before you were born with an honesty that no matter how blunt makes every effort at good manners, intelligence & an effortless wit.

* Sounds like you got some sort of double-standard going on like - "You can talk about WZ but ONLY if it is agreeable to MY (WRP) perceptions, presumptions & assumptions."

* And if that last is indeed the case - it would be best if everyone here is clear on that PoV.

* Personally, I hope all you WRP folk continue to follow EXACTLY what & where you've decided to go.... for what it's worth. I honestly mean that.

- Peace-out, RV :)
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kage
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by kage » 08 Nov 2007, 23:54

DevUrandom wrote: I think this is the wrong location for overzealous advertisement...
You may tell us what you do in whatever shiny way you want, but what we can or cannot do and for which OS is to be decided by us.
along those lines, i run linux, and my friend runs windows -- we're looking at multiplayer games to blow time with, and inter-platform compatibility is worth about 30x more to us than anything else, and thus suggestions that this community become linux only, or do anything to make the build chain on any platform hell would either be met with total disinterest or a lot of resistance on our parts.

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DevUrandom
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by DevUrandom » 09 Nov 2007, 00:07

I'm pretty sorry. I come to the conclusion that my post would be seen in a wrong context, but sadly it was already too late to correct it. (And editing it after I was quoted, or even editing other peoples quotes would by one of the things I'd never do...)

To clear it up:
I was a bit pissed by this sentence and more or less solely this one:
Rman Virgil wrote: * This work will be Win-only when released.... however, it's been made such that the WRP could port it to Linux & Mac OS if they so want.....(but, like I said, their Win ver cannot support any of these enhancements)....
More specifically the part in brackets.
To me it sounds like anti-advertisement which is ... no complying with my standards of interaction.

The part of your post with the facts about the reasons for the fork were true. (IRC conversations plus us having a different view on what regards open-ness (of formats in this case) (I don't want to judge that) and making a slow progress in supporting Grim in his work were likely the major reasons for this.)

You may also very well talk about the fork (and post progress info till you have an own site to report news).
I won't censor anything. I may comment with my opinion, one time or the other, but I won't delete stuff or censor anything, whether this may be advertisement or not (as long as it is WZ related... This excl. pr0n and stuff, obviously...).

I just don't like if someone seemingly tries to push himself on the cost of others. And whether we can support "quality GFX" or "mind-blowing enhancements" is our pair of shoes, not yours...

EDIT: Another clarification: I certainly don't want any war... I respect your work and hope we all can benefit from this situation.
Last edited by DevUrandom on 09 Nov 2007, 00:29, edited 1 time in total.

EvilGuru
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Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by EvilGuru » 09 Nov 2007, 00:16

Ugh, another day another war... If this were WZ I would be a special by now.

So here is where I stand on all of this:
  • Forks are good, as it allows people to be more productive. It also allows for projects to go in new directions, which can result in benefits for all projects.
  • Advertising what currently is 'pie in the sky' is a good way to piss me off, so take note of this. Unless you want to be as respected as a day-time TV advert please hold off.
  • ...of-course when your product is finished, and dermatologically tested (not on animals mind you), feel free to advertise it to your leisure.
  • Cross platform compatibility is good, but it is not for everyone. I see it as an asset, but maybe some others see it as a burden holding the project back, but thats cool.
  • Project goals come before *everything* else, these are:
    • To readd support for game servers where players can find each other.
    • To make the Warzone 2100 code stable, clean and easy to modify.
    • Keep as much as possible to the original Warzone 2100 'feel'.
  • Therefore the things I am most interested in are getting the code-base stable (cross-platform support all around) and making online play possible.
On a side note we have got very off topic, and I think that we should split it into another topic regarding the new up-coming version/fork.

Regards, Freddie.

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Rman Virgil
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Re: Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by Rman Virgil » 09 Nov 2007, 11:45

* Well gents I think we have cleared the air to everyones satsifaction & I hope there are no lingering hard feelings. I certainly don't have any (for purely selfish reasons - they're counter productive for one.)

* As far as goals: many mentioned by EG are shared in common - there's just a different modus in operation that basically supports the evolution of alternative PoVs 100%.

* Ultimately it is WZ Players (in All GPM Modes - SP CAM, Ski & MP to be sure) that will benefit from all this (as well new content creators - even those who have visions of WZ radically different than ours.)

* I have had the benefit of seeing WZ truely evolve since close to day one (at the hands of WZ Creators) to this day (it's so called "feel" has gone thru several incarnations & is NOT the monolithic construct some seem to assume. If it had been such, a calcified fossil so to speak , we wouldn't be here, I can assure you 100%).

* On a last note - I have no time or patience for "Pie in the Sky" or naive "Pipe-Dreams".  Nothing I've spoken to qualifies as either, you can be sure.

* Side Bar: "Something wicked this way comes" is an original line from The Bard's "Macbeth" (Pumpkin was predominantly Englishmen afterall & even for a "Yankee" / Indian "Red Man" like myself, The Bard, is THE Master who informs & inspires many of my passions). Later it was taken-up by one of my favorite Speculative Fiction authors - Ray Bradbury, in his 1962 novel of the same title (which I highly recommend, btw, along with other signature works like "Farenheight 451" & the "Martian Chronicles" ....)

* The best of luck with your efforts gentleman & we'll be seeing ya on the other side of a new reality in WZ gaming.

- Cheers, RV :)

** Last Sidebar: "Off Topic".... hmmm, interesting choice. I'm sure Kurt Godel could have written a thought provoking "Set-Theory" paper on that choice (I'm sure Carl Jung would have had something insightful to say as well. Not to mention Bertrand Russell on the logic of antinomies - which I just did !!)
Last edited by Rman Virgil on 09 Nov 2007, 14:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Buginator
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Re: Regarding the fork [Was: Rethinking WZ GFX]

Post by Buginator » 12 Nov 2007, 06:49

Just wanted to say, that even though some people get mad about what could be considered by some as silly arguments, the bottom line is we all want to see WZ live on.

I am sure there are other people working on WZ, and they all have their own direction.

Pumpkin with the help of Rman Virgil, Rebel4nikator (sp?) and a few other guys+ all the guys that signed the petition (no offense if I didn't name you, but I did want to make this snippet short), they released the source code to make us all happy, and to see their baby live on.

What that baby will look like in 1/2/10/50 years, nobody knows yet, which is part of the fun. :)

So if you want to help out with this project, or another feel free, heck, you can even start your own.
Don't let anyone tell you, you can't do it.
The beauty of open source is anyone can get the source code for free, and you can do whatever enhancing you wish.
Just do it! :)
and it ends here.

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