The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other oddities.

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Rman Virgil
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Thinking aloud in a post helps me better know what I'm up to which without the effort would remain purely intuitive and prone to undue mucking about. That alone makes the excercise of inestimable value, for any who may be bemused by these odd utterances, somewhat reminiscent of talking to oneself out of an antic disposition. Rest assured, the antic is but an appearance. Then again, the inordinate investment in detail and the glee in subverting some basic game play design axioms, could easily be construed as antics of a manic nature were you to take the DSM-5 for a gospel of science.

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Back from a slew of South West adventures, recharged and atop the saddle of this effort. Threading the magnificent landscapes of Arizona has added fodder to the fire and though the work progresses, much remains to be done. However, completion by Yuletide is in hand.

In savoring the process of getting the details just so, I'm propelled by the vision of a certain experience I would have as a player that is thoroughly satisfying fun, in both a martial and aesthetic sense, that some may quietly share in kind and that will, alas, also serve as an apt swansong for this sort of making.

While previous expression of goals has been clearly nuts and bolts pragmatic, I would now hope to articulate, briefly, a driving poetics that dovetails with the utilitarian - along with some story weaving postulates which, btw, are derived from the expanded 2-part WZ Timeline / Backstory, whose most current iteration can also be found in this thread. It all connects and no work goes to waste. And though I've mentioned it in passing already it merits repeating.

Whilst this is not a map mod in itself, it is entirely designed to run under the mod bundle of "Contingency / USM / NullBot" and whose FlaMe Data Set I'm also making judicious use of. (So if you have any interest in checking this project out I would suggest getting to know this mod bundle in the coming weeks. It could help you some, but just how pivotal, and instrumental, it will be in your penultimate success is yet open to debate because there is no other 250 x 250 map of this type matrix of challenge and complexity to practice on - at least that I'm aware of.)

My aknowledgment and appreciation goes out to all these creators: Flail 13, Shadow, NoQ, Berg, Black Project, Goth.... as well those contributors to the core game whose work also plays an important part of this effort - like Gerard and MaNGusT most apparently, but I've no doubt work done by members of the development team has also had a critical hand in what is possible now that wasn't at all not so very long ago.

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At its core, it's all outside the box. Inequities balanced outside the box. Always - and in all ways concievable to me. That is where trust in the designs will reside. In itself, a concept to wrap your noggin around that will challenge a few basic assumptions I will touch upon shortly.  

It is a game world steeped in a poetics of fearful beauty. A lurking beauty that invites at every turn to come hither and thither as it simultaneously projects uncertain byways, weird warping trails and Ouroboros passages that can hardly be commited to memory and thereby strike one venturing headlong to uncover their mysteries like the mythical journey of Theseus into the Minotaur's Cretan Labyrinth. But instead of a subterranean maze, it is under an open sky, with ever morphing horizons part of sorting the puzzle pieces of landscape that, in dispelling fog of war, you merely scratch the surface of grasping.

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In essence, audacity will take you just so far and in place of that half human, barbarous beast Theseus engaged, you will face a relentless juggernaut of humanity driven to ruthless defense of the world they've cobbled together, with herculean persistence and clever improvisation, out of a post collapse surface nightmare lasting half a generation which they had no choice but make the best of.

To these fierce surface dwellers would come the early years of interloper emergence from below ground, small in numbers but greater in war tech and that these would inturn compell thier exodus to the equatorial south to retrench and refine their low tech tacs of stealth, misdirection, select harvesting of battlefield wreckage and, most pivotal, mastery of earthworks. All these they would have to develope to a high art to counter the might is right of the undergrounders, thier superior war machine, and their inevitable expansion from the northern realms conquered but growing stark.

So this swelling invasion of pre-collapse elites (who'd hunkered safely from nuke winter in underground enclaves), becomes the South American mission, theirs and now yours, to lay claim to the scarce resources of a post-collapse world thoroughly abandoned for well nigh two decades (to the aftermath of flesh consuming mushroom clouds, scourching firestorms and the cold comfort of arctic night) to ultimately, make no mistake, displace the lower tech, but canny, surface survivors of their hard won equatorial haven.

Even when driven by the nobelest of self-sacrificing notions, making war and making empire have a powerful affinity and, more often than not, are joined at the hip like Siamese twins.

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Previous experience will provide little solace, or lifeline, into this conflict that grows as you think you know more, as you think your grasp firmer. But of course cheating will always be a tempting umbilical and as close as you'll get to Ariadne's skein of thread.  

That its shape-shifting form and function will inspire wonder is as vital to every encounter as it is that it mingle, seamless, the awful consequences of high risk gone awry right alongside incalulable opportunities to triumph against odds clearly, and without reservation, artfully stacked against you from the outset.

But triumph only if you can turn your imagination from staggering under the threat of going under, of abject failure, or the temptation to cry out - it just ain't humanly possible to deal with it all.

Imagination can be your able and key ally or your worst enemy. This is part of the game I would bring to the fore.  

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That you shall be seized by desire, an eager voluntary effort, to overcome a host of varied and totally unnecessary obstacles (which is the heart of any game), and be as much intrigued as rattled, that so basic an expectation, challenging fairplay, heretofore unquestioned, dare be subverted and yet be uncanny in its allure.  

Our WZ would have you believe in the paradox that it is emulating an arena that is anything but fair, warfare, and be content as such with the illusion. I would have you believe in triumph over the unfair, over terrors couched in beautifully detailed and perplexing landscapes, over quakeing at your keyboard (though no one but you would know) and, in the end, to yearn for more in kind.  
"All earthly experience is partial. Not simply because it is subjective, but because that which we do not know, of the universe, of mortality, is so much more vast than that which we do know. What is unfinished or has been destroyed participates in these mysteries. The problem is to make a whole that does not forfeit this power." - Louise Gluck quoted in Maps of the Imagination
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The next set of screens i'll be posting tomorrow will provide a glimpse into the latest forms, I trust appealing but certainly benign. They also represent the most complex mapping I've ever attempted. I push the envelope of visual aesthetics and detail whilst not hampering PF and PW efficacy. However, what won't be obvious to most are the functional threats that the forms will harbor upon final completion, for I feel these must remain a mystery to unfurl in the game play experience. In the end, though I've shaped it in its entirety, I will have to confront more mystery than what I think I know of all its nuances as its maker. Perhaps those with eidetic memory, deep know-how of mapping and the game's heretofore winning mechanics will have an alternate experience than I.  

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose learn.  

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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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Tried to do a 360 panorama sequence of this sector.

Note: You'll see some textures and features that I'm using as place holders for stuff I'm saving for the release version.

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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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With some units for perspective and to better visualize GP implications like in the case of those LOS related, for example.

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Lord Apocalypse
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

Post by Lord Apocalypse »

nice landscape
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Thanks LA. :)

With the GP meshing, form serving fun_ction, I will be happy for it to be frightfully nice. ;)
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Was testing some new SW for my Machinma pipeline and realized I failed to grab the following section in my previous 360° panorama set of 6 screens. So here it be with stock assets in one grab and Art Revolution assets in an other. I still have to test AR running with the Contingency / USM mod bundle.

And something related to my last response to LA:
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal.

- Henry Ford
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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This comes under the heading of - "funny how odd things connect". Serendipity strikes again.

Of late I found myself playing ancient (in Net Time) Text Adventure games on my Galaxy Note 3. This is a genre that had its inception on a mainframe back in 1975. Here's a link if your interested in the nature and history of the genre:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game

How this relates here goes back to my recent post on the poetics of this project, begining with (but not limited to) dealing with a "puzzle-piece landscape". The 3D aspects of the unfolding puzzle experience will be obvious. What won't be as obvious, at first, will be the integrated temporal puzzle dimensions.

Puzzles are a big part of the IF Text Adventure experience. While building out work on the engagement opportunity components of this project, it struck me that one of the core experiences I was trying to trigger was the equivalent of Timing Puzzles in the context of combat GP. Timing to make all the difference between advancing and being nipped in the bud, in pursueing certain exploratory paths (alternate paths will pose different challenges, like creating simultaneous diversion feints elsewhere, for example).

Here's a ref on puzzle components in IF games. Pay special heed to the "Timing Puzzles" section:

http://junk.dk/puzzle/

Another instance of uncovering a vague intuitive thrust, identifying its specific roots and thereby minimizing, hopefully, unfocused, less effective, mucking about in the implementation. :hmm:

I believe there can be crux, and fun, GP constraint considerations other than typical hi-low oil MP/SP and Campaign constructs. Ergo, this departure from those norms.

NEXT: Will post some screens of Ground Zero, literally, Player position "0". (By next weekend. Come to feel posting no more than once a week is apropos, holding my feet to the fire. ;) ) This start base platform construct is blending influences from Normandy Bocage and the High Pass from the Battle of Thermopylae (aka "The 300").

Think I will here change the name of the project to "Ground Zero SA". (SA = South America)

While working on this (itself a change of pace from the Hammond-Reed novel project which grew out of composing an Expanded Timeline / Backstory), I started visualizing a FMV making use of Machinma footage shot on "Ground Zero SA" (reason for me testing that new SW mentioned in my last post - best so far outta a half dozen tested, btw) that would be spliced with FP-POV character anim I would create, so I started writing a shooting script I may also post here (going through the usual draft revisions, at this point). Some may find all these inter-connections, and reciprocating tasks, of interest but I won't go beyond storyboarding the FMV till "Ground Zero SA" is completed and released.

All these, rewarding in themselves, are also self-sustaining strategems to feed my enthusiasm over the long haul of novel composition, by being able to switch back and forth, using different faculties, sensibilites & skillz. Different challenges, different modalities, around a common nexus (lower case "n" to be sure ;)). It's how it be rolling, basically. :3
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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Quick question, have you tried submitting any of your short stories to tor.com for publication?

Anyway, looks like everything is coming along rather well on the map. The level of detail is very nice at a distance, how does it look close-in?
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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Lord Apocalypse wrote:Quick question, have you tried submitting any of your short stories to tor.com for publication?
I haven't. I've been re-drafting the older stuff to be internally consistent with the newer and then I was gonna organize them all along a time line to make an ebook. When new stuff comes to me, I focus on that so the process tends to fits and starts. But now that you brought it up, I'll keep it in mind as a possibility. :)
Anyway, looks like everything is coming along rather well on the map. The level of detail is very nice at a distance, how does it look close-in?
The visuals I have in hand now. It's the topography (& placement /type) correlated GP dependecies that are even slower going as I build out from Ground Zero, the various defensive and offensive opportunities and challenges, along with thier timing and balance elements, and then test for the consequences of each factor introduced, on a continuum from micro to macro events....or diverse begining, middle and endgame outcomes. Lots and lots of testing - which is ok, because I can do it all, unlike something geared for MP (which play-testing for may as well be the quest for the Holy Grail and something I'll likely never again engage like I tried with the experimental Aqua Coop and Commander Mod).

I do have the game camara pulled back as far as possible for the widest perspective. I can take some caps closer to typical play distance to judge for yourself. My sense is that the Art Revolution assets hold up best the closer the camera .... to the point were MORE detail can be appreciated, though that would be an atypical playing distance.

What suffers the most the closer you get are the cliff face details... though at typical playing distance, they do the job just fine, imo. The way I've seen them way better is as 3d models and placed as Features in the map editor. But thats such a labor intensive process compared to brushes, I just don't see it catching on. As it is now, I don't even use the FlaMe Cliff Brushes because they don't come close enough to the look I'm after. I do vertices and texture mixing by hand... all of it. Time consuming (though my speed has increased the more I've done it) but not nearly as much as laying inter-locking 3d models of cliff - which I've also done.
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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As I have been involved in game development, I've seen three basic approaches to landscape design (I am talking now about the technical side of things)
1) Heightmap-based: This seems to be the easiest way to create a basic landscape fast. The problem is: cliff angles and detail along the vertical axis. For large-scale landscapes, like in supreme commander, this is a very good approximation, since gravity doesn't really allow large-scale vertical cliffs with overhang. The primary advantage of this approach is the ability to use any image editor as a map editing tool.
2) Tile-based: Starcraft 2 does this surprisingly well (as well as all of the blizzard rts:es). One can also have 3d tiles, like in red alert 2 / tiberian sun. The problem is, unless you have a great variety of perfectly interlocking tiles, your map will look very grid-like.
3)Mesh-based: Mostly used for adventure/fps type games, but also used in SupCom 2, this approach sets no limit for the detail/shape of the terrain, but to actually make maps that utilize this possibiliy you need to be a 3d-modeler.
Compared to tiles and heightmaps, this approach also requires a lot of intelligence and complexity from the game engine, as well as the maps requiring more space, since they possibly include their own meshes and textures.

I've been thinking about your cliff features and how to best make use of their potential. The problem is that they essentially use the tile-approach while warzone uses the heightmap-approach. In a tile-based engine, the terrain would have discrete heights and ramp-style tiles to transition between them. This makes it easy to use cliff features since they can be of a fixed height and you need only a few sets for different heights. Warzone has a near-continuous distribution of height differences, so this approach is problematic.
A possible solution would be "intelligent deformable features" which could rescale themselves according to the height difference and still be tileable. This is a pretty hard thing to implement, but not entirely unlike the deformable walls which warzone had in the past. The problem is of course that the deformable walls were not suited for modern gpu:s, so we would have to use something more advanced, like morph targets.
ImageImage
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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Jorzi wrote:.....

A possible solution would be "intelligent deformable features" which could rescale themselves according to the height difference and still be tileable. This is a pretty hard thing to implement, but not entirely unlike the deformable walls which warzone had in the past. The problem is of course that the deformable walls were not suited for modern gpu:s, so we would have to use something more advanced, like morph targets.
I messed around with something like this in WZ's World Editor a few years back useing scaled up AZ boulder features (the models filling the tile, or tiles, to the edges) placed in varying clusters where I then proceeded to deform them by changing the terrain elevation vertices. Looked cool. Could be made destructable or indestructable. Supporting it in game is another story. :hmm: Is it worth the effort considering the typical camera playing distance ? Dunno.

Should post some screens next as I mentioned I would in my last post to LA that illustrate current cliff detail made more complex than normal and viewed at a typical playing distance. Do this l8r today. :3
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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Here be those illustrative screens of detail vs. typical camera playing distance. :)

They are taken from one section of the Ground Zero start position that I'm furthest along on (still stuff to be done but this is just a tasty preview which shouldn't reveal all any hoot :twisted: ).

There are several other very different topographic sections to this position alone. All are, to me at least, aesthetically appealing forms that also serve critical functions. They all present different topographic opportunities that you must first percieve tactically and then specifically exploit in your decision-making from the get go to, hopefully, start your longish journey to ultimate domination. Just the begining of scores and scores of challenges (many combinatorial) scattered throughout the entire 250 x 250 expanse, which in turn are all grounded in battlefield tacs from throughout history - from B.C. to the 21st Century.

These screens of "Ground Zero" represent about 25% of Player position "0". This one section is my mash-up blending of influences from the Normandy Bocage of D-day with the High Pass from the Battle of Thermopylae (aka "The 300"). As with the other topograpic sections, to not tactically exploit its opportunities is to critically diminish your chances of prevailing against the odds, which are pretty stiff against you... but never impossible, just scary, challenging and interesting, in a military combat sense. ;)
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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This next set of caps belongs with my last post. Same region of the Ground Zero start position 'cept for FoW being dispelled more so as to be seen clearer.

The military principles involved in my mash-up of Normandy Bocage and the High Pass at the Battle of Thermopylae are given 3 combinatorial variants. The caps of the previous post represented 2 variants. This post's caps, the 3rd interlocking variant. There is more than one way to exploit the 3 variants in combination. However, there is an optimal combination. Then there are the other parts of the Ground Zero start position that present quite different topographic forms, challenges and tactical exploits to manage simultaneously, to factor into ALL strategic decision making.
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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From "Ground Zero" we go clear across the other side of Gondwana * with our sky cam (skipping over many topographic wonders and challenges in between) to lay eyes on Little Ziggy. It differs from Pumpkin's in more than just the obvious pint-size scale. :hmm:

* Yep, even Plate Tectonics Theory has been inspiring, as in the break-up of Pangaea into Gondwana and Laurasia. I've taken poetic license with scale and degree of drift.
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Re: The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other odditie

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As far as the potential uglies of Cliff Face work, I've highlighted obliviating the Grid-look through curvature in 3D (gotta get it right in the HM first) and variety through handworking vertices and mixing textures ( putting FlaMe cliff brushes to the side).

Another modus I use to contend with another ugly, the ugly of texture stretching in multi-level cliff face, is one, terracing, and two, what I call "tile stacking", which I do in variants from 2 - 4 levels. The caps above have examples of this up to 4-Tile Stacking, which is not as readily discerned as is terracing. (In some cases I combine both techniques... along with curvature 3D.)

Generally, if your into making flat, symmetric, high-oil MP maps, these are not things you really concern yourself with. How you would make such maps more aesthetically attractive or beautiful, without making use of such techniques is, frankly, beyond my ability to grok. Maybe more apt techniques exist I cannot percieve or maybe they just don't matter much to that style of GP. I really dunno. :hmm:

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