ground penetrating projectiles

Warzone 2.2.x series. (Unsupported--read only !)

ground penetrating projectiles

Postby psychopompos » 11 Aug 2009, 23:33

wasnt this fixed?
im playing 221 now with the hardcore mod & vtol lancer rounds are traveling through walls, mg rounds are going through cliffs & tank killers are burrowing through whole hills... :stare:
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby XboxJosh » 12 Aug 2009, 00:54

I hear ya... I tried a new strat involving Vtol pads... I surrounded 'em with walls and a layer of AA cuz BecomePrey was killing my vtols, lancers went straight through the walls... :scream:

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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby whippersnapper » 12 Aug 2009, 09:03

.

Yes. Can confirm it is still a problem with v.2.2.1 Makes me laugh so I'm not inclined to grumble much about it. ;)

Regards, whip :cool:
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby fisk0 » 12 Aug 2009, 16:20

Yeah, I just played a 2.2.1 skirmish match and noticed that too, and I'm also quite sure that this was fixed in earlier versions.
I had scourge hover tanks firing from the shore on the manhattan map at a power plant at the top of one of the mountains, and the missiles went right through the mountainside and emerged from the ground about one tile from the structure and destroyed it, I'm not sure, but I think they fired from a much longer distance than they did in earlier versions too, they could fire from one shore to the other (on the same map, on the places where the two opposing shores were closest to each other), while my mortars at roughly the same distance wouldn't fire.
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby dragoncrusher » 15 Aug 2009, 10:37

happen to me to, but i kinda like it, cause of the campaign :P
maybe the missile should be able to go over the hills and mountain o.O, the missile effect in DOW, how the missile flies over the hill
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby Buginator » 22 Aug 2009, 04:53

heh... well... file a bug report (http://developer.wz2100.net/newticket), even though this is known. Maybe someone with enough time will fix it.

Or it could just be a new technology that phases the bullet into another space time continuum...and when it clears the obstacle, then BOOM! :ninja:
and it ends here.
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby lav_coyote25 » 22 Aug 2009, 08:09

Buginator wrote: a new technology that phases the bullet into another space time continuum...and when it clears the obstacle, then BOOM! :ninja:



thats it exactly - there!! bug fixed. xD
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby Zarel » 24 Aug 2009, 07:14

Well, that's not too annoying. The more annoying part is when tanks shoot at things they can't hit. As I've mentioned before, for balance reasons, I prefer for the projectile to go through the ground than for it to continue to shoot at a target it has zero chances of hitting. If the graphics look too ugly, we might move the projectile slightly above-ground for the rendering phase.
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby psychopompos » 25 Aug 2009, 06:24

Zarel wrote:Well, that's not too annoying. The more annoying part is when tanks shoot at things they can't hit.

less annoying? its infuriating!
it completely, totally and utterly sucks any semblance of strategically placing units/structures in relation to the environment from the stratagy.
and makes the use of tall defences to protect vehicles at repair stations pointless.

putting defences in places the landscape protects them, forcing the enemy to come within range = good tactics
putting defences in places the landscape protects them, preventing artillery hitting effectivly = good tactics
putting tanks on top of a hill, so that all but the turret is occluded from targeting = good tactics
hiding damaged units behind defensive walls/structures = good tactics
having your vtols duck & land behind a cliff = good tactics

Zarel wrote:As I've mentioned before, for balance reasons, I prefer for the projectile to go through the ground than for it to continue to shoot at a target it has zero chances of hitting.

:stare:
thats does not seem like a balance issue.
more of, you need to move your unit to where it can hit effectively.
or have the unit check its LOS itself what part of the target is not occluded & aim at that part.
if the target is completely occluded... maybe it should just stop firing and move, reporting a "no line of sight" dialogue etc.

Zarel wrote:Well, that's not tooIf the graphics look too ugly, we might move the projectile slightly above-ground for the rendering phase.

nothing wrong with the graphics here.
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby Zarel » 25 Aug 2009, 08:23

psychopompos wrote:less annoying? its infuriating!
it completely, totally and utterly sucks any semblance of strategically placing units/structures in relation to the environment from the stratagy.
and makes the use of tall defences to protect vehicles at repair stations pointless.

Not true.

Currently, if something is outside of line-of-sight, the unit will move until it's within line-of-sight before shooting at it. Because of that, all your strategy still holds.

That's why projectiles penetrating the ground is incorrect behavior: Not because it's going through the ground, but being it shouldn't be shooting at something it can't hit in the first place.

The situation I've seen the problem the worst is in mostly-level but slightly convex terrain. It's pretty much impossible to tell when this is, but you'll see units be unable to shoot through seemingly flat terrain. That sucks.

psychopompos wrote:if the target is completely occluded... maybe it should just stop firing and move, reporting a "no line of sight" dialogue etc.

That's exactly what I'm saying! -_-
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby psychopompos » 25 Aug 2009, 14:34

Zarel wrote:Not true.
completly true!
exactly how do you make use of 'terrain cover' when projectiles penetrate the terraign?
exactly how do you make use of 'fortification cover' when projectiles pass through the defences?


Zarel wrote:Currently, if something is outside of line-of-sight, the unit will move until it's within line-of-sight before shooting at it. Because of that, all your strategy still holds.
so the targeting code works. brilliant, thats less work then.
if not compensating for target occlusion?

Zarel wrote:That's why projectiles penetrating the ground is incorrect behavior: Not because it's going through the ground, but being it shouldn't be shooting at something it can't hit in the first place.
at least its trying :stare:

Zarel wrote:The situation I've seen the problem the worst is in mostly-level but slightly convex terrain. It's pretty much impossible to tell when this is, but you'll see units be unable to shoot through seemingly flat terrain. That sucks.
PERFECT!!
thats called using terraign cover!!
thats how it should work.
use artillary to mitigate the problem.
though future use of accurate projectile arcs would help.
and missiles can turn in mid air.

move your camera around to double check, and also, try holding "Z" + "ctrl" then release "Z" then release "ctrl".

Zarel wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying! -_-
which does not mean ground/wall/structure penetrating projectiles.
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby Zarel » 25 Aug 2009, 17:41

psychopompos wrote:PERFECT!!
thats called using terraign cover!!
thats how it should work.
use artillary to mitigate the problem.
though future use of accurate projectile arcs would help.
and missiles can turn in mid air.

No, using actual varied terrain is called terrain cover.

Not being able to fire past SUPPOSEDLY FLAT TERRAIN is just annoyance. Although that's partially the fault of map designers...
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby psychopompos » 25 Aug 2009, 22:25

i think maybe you where missing a small dip/rise in the terrain.
i also thing the targeting needs to compensate for target occlusion, as im not sure it does this

if thats not the case i will re-install the (2.1.3 ?) version with the realistic hit system & you can give me an example save.
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby Zarel » 25 Aug 2009, 23:02

psychopompos wrote:i think maybe you where missing a small dip/rise in the terrain.

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "slight convexity". I shouldn't have to memorize where all the small dips/rises are, just to play the game. This is a real-time strategy game, not a "find the hidden obstacles" game. I have no problem with terrain obstruction, but obstructing terrain should be visible.

psychopompos wrote:i also thing the targeting needs to compensate for target occlusion, as im not sure it does this

It does (it raycasts). It's just really inaccurate about it.

psychopompos wrote:if thats not the case i will re-install the (2.1.3 ?) version with the realistic hit system & you can give me an example save.

This uses the same hit system as 2.1.3... This is the hit system that's supposedly realistic; it's just kind of buggy, s'all.
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles

Postby psychopompos » 26 Aug 2009, 03:10

Zarel wrote:Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "slight convexity". I shouldn't have to memorize where all the small dips/rises are, just to play the game. This is a real-time strategy game, not a "find the hidden obstacles" game.

you mean observing the terraign & taking advantage of it isnt stratagy?
sorry to tell you (well, not really :P ), but dealing with uneven terrain is a central part of strategy ;)

Zarel wrote:I have no problem with terrain obstruction, but obstructing terrain should be visible.

hold "Z" then hold in "CTRL" at the same time, then release "Z" then release "CTRL"
go replicate it to see what i mean & make tapping Z toggle it, rather then having to hold "Z" for the effect. ;)
that will make obstructing terrain quite easy to see.
its the first key combo i hit when i start a level.

Zarel wrote:It does (it raycasts). It's just really inaccurate about it.

i remember reading that now.
but does that specifically mean it targets only the bit it can see?
when i was playing, one of my tanks was shooting a tower, it had LOS on the top of the tower (i moved the camera to check), but was aiming dead center, thus firing through the cliff face the tower was above a fer tiles back.

Zarel wrote:This uses the same hit system as 2.1.3... This is the hit system that's supposedly realistic; it's just kind of buggy, s'all

:...:
then which version was it where it was working?
i do remember feeling rather impressed when i saw the projectiles actually hitting the ground they where hitting.
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