v2.2.1 and strange Become Prey behaviour

[zydonk]

Now, allowing that I have set the mod up correctly (having done it for previous versions), I find that the BP AIs engage in free-for-all combat. Everything else is as expected of BP, big rushes, kamikaze flamer cyborgs, weak research dev, and elaborate defences (no VTOLs). The research side seems especially poor, with dozens of MG towers forming the backbone of their defences quite late in the game.

It's a bit of a novelty at the moment, kicking the arses of those mean mothers for a change, but still it's all very curious...

[Zarel]

It's a possibility that BP's research path doesn't work well with 2.2's research tree. I'd look into it, but I really can't figure out where BP's research path is stored.

[zydonk]

Isn't BP an AI mod? The research tree it follows (and the human player too, of course) is WZ's vanilla. The map I used is a bit wonky - some oil wells were not available, being over the edge now under latest WZ versions (which now take up a three square deep margin of the map, whereas the original only took two). So resources were very unbalanced. There may be a build v research algorithm in the AI, and given that they were scrapping with each other, build demand would have been very high.

But the really interesting aspect is the free-for-all. On a four player map, they had cut out one of the AI players in minutes and then fought lustily over its resources. I mean, the all-for-one against the human(s) is the whole rationale of the mod. How on earth could it be disabled? I assume, for instance, that each player is separately scripted to co-operate.

As I said, it's something of a novelty at the moment. Victory over BP in my case has usually been trivial, so I don't feel I'm missing out on something special.

[Per]

The tech tree we use now is not exactly the same as the original. This may have thrown BP off a bit.

[Zarel]

But the really interesting aspect is the free-for-all. On a four player map, they had cut out one of the AI players in minutes and then fought lustily over its resources. I mean, the all-for-one against the human(s) is the whole rationale of the mod. How on earth could it be disabled? I assume, for instance, that each player is separately scripted to co-operate.

Incidentally, the AIs used to attack human players preferentially, but enough people complained about that that it was taken out.

[zydonk]

Incidentally, the AIs used to attack human players preferentially, but enough people complained about that that it was taken out.

Uh...

[Per]

Incidentally, the AIs used to attack human players preferentially, but enough people complained about that that it was taken out.

Seems like this is something that should have been controlled by the difficulty slider?

[PkK]

Incidentally, the AIs used to attack human players preferentially, but enough people complained about that that it was taken out.

Thanks. Why should AI players that are not allied cooperate against the human players (OK, one could rationalize that they go against the biggest threat first, but on the other hand it could make sense to go for the weak AI neighbour to get it's resources)? Alliances exist to decide who shall fight against whom.

Philipp

[zydonk]

Thanks. Why should AI players that are not allied cooperate against the human players (OK, one could rationalize that they go against the biggest threat first, but on the other hand it could make sense to go for the weak AI neighbour to get it's resources)? Alliances exist to decide who shall fight against whom.

Philipp

The point of BP in the good old days was that the AI ganged up on the human. As you can see from other topics, there were some people who could handle that. For me it was a question of how long would I last against x number (from 2 to 7)? The answer to which was: not very long. Fun in a weird masochistic way.

But the point now, I think, is this: Playing a conventional game with BP exposes some of the limitations of the AI mod itself. When you had a zillion tanks out to get you, it didn't matter whether they had Gauss guns or pea-shooters, the numbers were going to get you. Now, tbh, the only real challenge is having the patience to knock out the zillion mg emplacements that surround their bases. (I know, I know, rows and rows of rockets.) O/wise the AI is like a gang of clueless bullyboys.

The solution, surely, must be to get - by hook or by crook - LOD rigged for our present WZ. I tell you, I really miss the sight of a line of Rotary Flamers chewing up formations of bigboy tanks.

[lav_coyote25]

The map I used is a bit wonky - some oil wells were not available, being over the edge now under latest WZ versions (which now take up a three square deep margin of the map, whereas the original only took two).

nope its always been three tiles from the map's outside edge. myself i use 4 just to be on the safe side when i place wells - due to exactly that reason about wells not being available. xD

[zydonk]

Just for the record: whether BP AI players ally against you (the human player) or not depends on whether you allow alliances or not.

Also for the record: after two hours on a 8 hander(squared), some of the AI teams had got to using lasers, so research seems about average, esp if a game lasts. In this game, the AI knocked out (no alliances btw) three of their compatriots in first 30 minutes. I was under sustained heavy attack from two-three of the remainder for the first 40 minutes. It tailed off after that, mainly I suspect because I was no longer seen as the weakest team. Even so, I remained under attack from 1-2 teams, using progressively heavier gear. Very intense. I will try BP now with a more open map, like Rolling Hills, to see if AI tries to control strongpoints etc.

Per's suggestion about allowing the use of the sliders should be considered. I mean, the option for all out war would remain for those who are up to it, and varying the balance of forces could produce interesting results.

And, please, don't forget my little plea for LOD, a really choice mod...