Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

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Lord Apocalypse
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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Lord Apocalypse » 09 Nov 2011, 02:16

lav_coyote25 wrote:
zydonk wrote:As I suspected, a glove puppet.

dont start! no further warnings will be issued. flame of any member is not tolerated. :ireful:
lav, I don't *think it was meant as a flame or insult (at least I would hope not considering WHO we are talking about.

As I found (in the above post) it is not normally used in a derogatory, unless political or for those oh so personal occasions while driving (unless RJ secretly became a woman, but that is highly unlikely).

While I find the term rather humorous, I do NOT find the lack of some definition for the unenlighted who have never heard of the phrase before. It leads to an assumption (perhaps wrongly) that, in more wordy slang, disses an iconic member of the warzone community.

*EDIT* missing [ on first /b, made the whole thing look horrible
Last edited by Lord Apocalypse on 09 Nov 2011, 03:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by lav_coyote25 » 09 Nov 2011, 02:54

Lord Apocalypse wrote:RJ, I did one better for ya. Check this out, :idea: First Entry. I could find no reference to glove puppet save for :arrow:
A sock puppet website is a website created to support an artificial personality, known in Internet slang as a sock puppet, shadow puppet, or glove puppet[/url]

So, I think we have that one figured out ;) :lecture:

whichever. to me is still a flame like starter. and , one that will NOT be used here. i am pretty flexible, but when it comes to some words and being used as an insult ... nope. not going to happen. subject is now done. everyone is on the same page now. we don't use disparaging remarks. OK? :dontknow: OK! :ok:

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Rman Virgil » 09 Nov 2011, 03:54

zydonk wrote:As I suspected, a glove puppet.
Goth Zagog-Thou wrote:Oh my. That really wasn't necessary. Rman is a MUCH beloved and SENIOR member of this Community. He's the one of the people most responsible for getting the Warzone source code liberated, and as such, is deserving of WAAAAAAY more respect than that.

I may not be one of his favourite people, but I'll stick up for him ANY day.
Appreciate the support Goth. :D

I have only respect for your person & appreciation for your gifts & efforts. Truly. :) I couldn't keep up with the changes in the audio scripts and got a little frustrated that I really had no more time to spare on open-ended revisions. But like I said back then, I very much can relate to your work ethic of perfecting the artistry of your creations. Absolutely my core sense. :3
Lord Apocalypse wrote:RJ, I did one better for ya. Check this out, :idea: First Entry. I could find no reference to glove puppet save for :arrow:

A sock puppet website is a website created to support an artificial personality, known in Internet slang as a sock puppet, shadow puppet, or glove puppet
Lord Apocalypse wrote:So, I think we have that one figured out ;) :lecture:
That's all really fascinating & new to me. Thank you LA for digging further. :D Most of the definitions are comical, to be sure. :lol2:

Following your line of research I did find an actual slang definition for "glove puppet" proper in the Urban Dictionary - and it ain't pretty. I will quote shortly, but first let's preface -
zydonk wrote:As I suspected, a glove puppet.
lav_coyote25 wrote:dont start! no further warnings will be issued. flame of any member is not tolerated. :ireful:
Lord Apocalypse wrote:lav, I don't *think it was meant as a flame or insult (at least I would hope not considering WHO/b] we are talking about.

As I found (in the above post) it is not normally used in a derogatory, unless political or for those oh so personal occasions while driving (unless RJ secretly became a woman, but that is highly unlikely).

While I find the term rather humorous, I do NOT find the lack of some definition for the unenlighted who have never heard of the phrase before. It leads to an assumption (perhaps wrongly) that, in more wordy slang, disses an iconic member of the warzone community.


I would like to give zydonk the benefit of the doubt & think his use of "glove puppet" was not intended as a diss.... quite possibly at root, a simple misunderstanding.

Here is what I found at the Urban Dictionary:

1. Glove Puppet ....(10 up, 7 down)

YOU... when you just wanted to catch a flight & a man with enormous knuckles performs a cavity search.

Maximum points for screaming 'KERMYYYYYY!!!!!' with a Miss Piggy voice at half time.

Flew to London to take the Orient Express to Istanbul, but thanks to a Glove Puppet at JFK I couldn't sit down until Vienna.


Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... ove+puppet

Possibly the closest intention by zydonk is covered by your reference LA:

1. sock puppet 228 up, 25 down

An account made on an internet message board, by a person who already has an account, for the purpose of posting more-or-less anonymously.


I have certainly done this before, create other accounts like "whippersnapper", "Moro Nick" & "Jimmy Pastorius" but I always made it clear it was Rman so it never remained "anonymous" and it was also clearly for laughs. In this instance I really just didn't wanna bother logging in and with the quick nick "OfNoAccount" I was being impulsively comic-ironic while simply passing on an insight about the game I felt had value well beyond who expressed it. The heart of all this also goes back to my cultural roots and the respected "Heyoka" tradition of my people which translates into English as a "Contrary Clown".

This is a tough medium to convey genuine personal intention without benefit of face to face cues like vocal inflections, energetic body presence, language and gesture - but I do try to convey that authenticity through bb posting because that is of paramount value to me as opposed to my contriving some robotic, artificial, fake or poseur persona (THAT I do but strictly with my avatar in the world of Second Life which for me is like when, many moons ago, I embodied-portrayed fictional characters in local rep theater pieces and all was pure entertainment.)

I really do take this all as yet another unexpected learning opportunity and harbor no hard feelings about any of it. :3

Well then, I move on..... & take Lav's post to heart:

lav_coyote25 wrote:whichever. to me is still a flame like starter. and , one that will NOT be used here. i am pretty flexible, but when it comes to some words and being used as an insult ... nope. not going to happen. subject is now done. everyone is on the same page now. we don't use disparaging remarks. OK? :dontknow: OK! :ok:



- Regards, Rman. 8)
.

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Lord Apocalypse » 09 Nov 2011, 06:22

I think your version shall become my sig over at the vega strike forums. The kermit reference is rather funny, but I must say.. all in all.. OUCH!

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by zydonk » 09 Nov 2011, 12:42

"glove puppet" signifies here only that I had suspected that OfNoAccount was a front for a forum member (or another medusa). Hence my reference to irony - which seems to have offended no one.

RV is no doubt one of the best, but ventriloquism is a form of evasion and it is in order todraw attention to its use.

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Jonix » 09 Nov 2011, 21:27

Yes, you're definitely correct on that :geek: . Also I can't seem to make heads or tales of this... so "Rman Virgil"
(strange nickname :hmm: )has posed as "OfNoAccout"... :annoyed: :lecture: :lecture: :hmm: ?
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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Lord Apocalypse » 10 Nov 2011, 02:59

yes, and was once upon a time, Rman Jack from the old newst boards. This should clear things up for everyone. Don't know why the name change, but everyone does something for a reason.

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Jonix » 10 Nov 2011, 09:36

Lord Apocalypse wrote:yes, and was once upon a time, Rman Jack from the old newst boards. This should clear things up for everyone. Don't know why the name change, but everyone does something for a reason.
Thankyou for telling me :oops: :dontknow: :annoyed:
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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by zydonk » 10 Nov 2011, 13:10

Rman Virgil wrote:
The eventual roteness falls squarely on a play dynamic that is overwhelmingly weighted on the frontend in favor of fighting WITH information. To get beyond that stasis the game play weighting would have to shift more in favor of needing to fight FOR information.

The subtle [design] expression here makes a world of difference in replay value by minimizing that rote predictability which is its bane & thus spurring on that compelling desire to voluntarily overcome the unnecessary obstacles that is in essence a game.
Now that the dust has settled lets get to the meat:

Chess is a game that offers more knowledge than most could absorb and use, and has a finite number of very simple moves. People still play it with great relish.

Perhaps you confuse interest and worth. Farmers will work the same fields and artisans make things because they are worth doing, not merely because they find their work interesting.

"interesting" is for the dilettante, who has no better motivation.

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Jonix » 10 Nov 2011, 20:51

You seem like... Rman Virgil MK2 (mark 2) :lol2: :lol2: .
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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Jonix » 10 Nov 2011, 20:55

And thats a good thing. :( :| :) :D XD .
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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Rman Virgil » 11 Nov 2011, 10:18

.

"And call me Ishmael...."

('Cept for the white whale of that epic journey, substitute minnow and for mighty storms in the North Atlantic ocean, a tempest in a teapot. :rofl2: )

....................................................

zydonk wrote:Now that the dust has settled lets get to the meat:
With the 2 posts after yours... Hmmm, maybe regular dust has settled but radioactive fallout would appear to persist... :zomby:
zydonk wrote:Chess is a game that offers more knowledge than most could absorb and use, and has a finite number of very simple moves. People still play it with great relish.
I would substitute plethora of viable, winning, "Tactics & Strategies" (including those called asymmetric & gambits) for "knowledge", first off.

Then for "moves" I would substitute "rules".

Next, I would make clear that at present WZ 2100 does NOT possess these timeless, classic, GPM attributes.

Lastly, I would state flatly that the substance of my original postings (one you quoted & one unquoted) was about HOW exactly to evolve WZ 2100 GPMs so that it could more closely approach those rich game play attributes just explicated for chess. (And that WZ Creators, Pumpkin, foresaw & even laid the groundwork for that direction of development - which also happens to coincide with 21st century, high tech, RL military doctrine.) :read:
zydonk wrote:Perhaps you confuse interest and worth.


Nope. :ninja:

"Interest" is an unquantified term for a cognitive state of attention in which the spectrum can run the gamut from "passing interest" to "enduring, generative, interest".

"Worth" is a term denoting a value judgement. "Value" is something one strives to attain and hang on to.
zydonk wrote:Farmers will work the same fields and artisans make things because they are worth doing, not merely because they find their work interesting.
Yikes, where to begin deconstructing this word salad. :scratch1:

Agriculture is part of an essential basic survival strategy. :ok:

Art is part of culture and not at all essential to basic survival. Though the "play" component of artistic efforts can hone skills that can be applied to long term survival as when lion cubs "play" fight.

Compelling & sustained "interest" is part of the ignition & deep practice equation on the 10,000 hour path from rank newbie (or dilettante) to expert mastery (or world class talent).

There is so much more that can be said on artistry, the act of original creation, aesthetics, mastery & talent but, for the sake of BB posting brevity, I shall leave it at this for the moment. :hmm:
"interesting" is for the dilettante, who has no better motivation.
Deconstructed already & would only add for emphasis that "interest" is the initial building block of mastery. What separates a dilettante from a master is sustaining the interest over time with deep practice & generative feedback.

..................

On Amazon.com you can vote on the value of individual postings.

To wit: "Does this post add to the discussion ?"

I would have to vote a definitive NO on the 2 posts between Zydonk's and mine here. :boredom:

Regards, Rman. 8)
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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by zydonk » 11 Nov 2011, 12:33

Rman Virgil wrote:.

"And call me Ishmael...."

('Cept for the white whale of that epic journey, substitute minnow and for mighty storms in the North Atlantic ocean, a tempest in a teapot. :rofl2: )

....................................................

zydonk wrote:Now that the dust has settled lets get to the meat:
With the 2 posts after yours... Hmmm, maybe regular dust has settled but radioactive fallout would appear to persist... :zomby:
zydonk wrote:Chess is a game that offers more knowledge than most could absorb and use, and has a finite number of very simple moves. People still play it with great relish.
I would substitute plethora of viable, winning, "Tactics & Strategies" (including those called asymmetric & gambits) for "knowledge", first off.

Then for "moves" I would substitute "rules".

Next, I would make clear that at present WZ 2100 does NOT possess these timeless, classic, GPM attributes.

Lastly, I would state flatly that the substance of my original postings (one you quoted & one unquoted) was about HOW exactly to evolve WZ 2100 GPMs so that it could more closely approach those rich game play attributes just explicated for chess. (And that WZ Creators, Pumpkin, foresaw & even laid the groundwork for that direction of development - which also happens to coincide with 21st century, high tech, RL military doctrine.) :read:
zydonk wrote:Perhaps you confuse interest and worth.


Nope. :ninja:

"Interest" is an unquantified term for a cognitive state of attention in which the spectrum can run the gamut from "passing interest" to "enduring, generative, interest".

"Worth" is a term denoting a value judgement. "Value" is something one strives to attain and hang on to.
zydonk wrote:Farmers will work the same fields and artisans make things because they are worth doing, not merely because they find their work interesting.
Yikes, where to begin deconstructing this word salad. :scratch1:

Agriculture is part of an essential basic survival strategy. :ok:

Art is part of culture and not at all essential to basic survival. Though the "play" component of artistic efforts can hone skills that can be applied to long term survival as when lion cubs "play" fight.

Compelling & sustained "interest" is part of the ignition & deep practice equation on the 10,000 hour path from rank newbie (or dilettante) to expert mastery (or world class talent).

There is so much more that can be said on artistry, the act of original creation, aesthetics, mastery & talent but, for the sake of BB posting brevity, I shall leave it at this for the moment. :hmm:
"interesting" is for the dilettante, who has no better motivation.
Deconstructed already & would only add for emphasis that "interest" is the initial building block of mastery. What separates a dilettante from a master is sustaining the interest over time with deep practice & generative feedback.

..................

On Amazon.com you can vote on the value of individual postings.

To wit: "Does this post add to the discussion ?"

I would have to vote a definitive NO on the 2 posts between Zydonk's and mine here. :boredom:

Regards, Rman. 8)
.

All that bait...

Moving on:

The survival of WZ speaks for itself, which indicates an intrinsic worth. And that is? Free-play. Contrasted with directed play or rat-mazing. All the play activity is located within the game, within its rules - and limitations. It's an existential thing - one experiences it or one does not. I do - and I reckon many others do. Perhaps you don't, hoping instead that if WZ is improved you might someday experience it as free-play.

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by Rman Virgil » 12 Nov 2011, 23:58

.

"Bait ?" Not in the least. Though I'm sure now it's no coincidence that the salient points expressed at the very begining are not spoken to, yet again, with anything remotely resembling rigor. Nor will that ever happen for the conversation is not based on the goal of reciprocal understanding but rather something else.

(Let me break-down the post you summed, dismissed & dissed as "bait". Opened with self-deprecating humor based on literary wit, panache & allusion that was tightly, & elegantly, relevant to the proceedings. This was followed by a rational comment on the 2 irrelevant posts in between. Next was logical argument correlated to specific knowledge in the cognitive sciences, 13 years of deep experience with everything WZ, reference to actual work done by those who created WZ 2100 from scratch whom I also conversed with directly over many years, plus intimate knowledge of game design. "Bait ?" I think rather the onus falls on your powers of ratiocination & cosmopolitan discernment. Still, it matters for naught in the dominant culture of these environs, I am well aware.)

How I experience WZ you have not surmised correctly - not even close. However, let's be frank, that understanding is not your goal here.

"Free play" & WZ MP are worlds apart; incongruous really. You won't get that from playing CAM & SKI modes exclusively. If ever you engage the art form called bricolage or improv ensemble musicianship, you will grasp the aforementioned incongruence of applying that term to WZ first of all, and second, having the presumption to assume I know not what "free-play" means intellectually or viscerally when in fact I know both, & the later, profoundly.)

WZ's survival is something I am also intimately familiar with & I will state, without any doubt, it most definitely does not speak for itself. (Unless you count straight up bull-chit and whole-cloth conflation as "truth".)

Our sensibilities are worlds apart on WZ & all else that has come up here. And never shall the twain meet in mutual edification - let alone be an enjoyable process of enlightenment.

Experiencing this thread's evolution confirms the conclusion I arrived at 6 months ago - to wit, that my 13 year engagement with the game, & all its communities, on every possible level, should no longer include postings here.

So, I shall leave it at that.
.

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Re: Addicting, VERRRY ADDICTING

Post by lav_coyote25 » 13 Nov 2011, 01:58

ya know. i did say and i quote here:
whichever. to me is still a flame like starter. and , one that will NOT be used here. i am pretty flexible, but when it comes to some words and being used as an insult ... nope. not going to happen. subject is now done. everyone is on the same page now. we don't use disparaging remarks. OK? :dontknow: OK! :ok:

:ireful: WHAT!! can no one just leave it (expletive deleted) be. nooooo, got to keep stirring the pot, making people feel not welcome. next comment that i see from any (expletive deleted) about any community member , will be with out a posting place for a month. a second flaming comment will get that person perm banned. as i have stated prior. you want to argue - go someplace else and do it. i have seen this community fragmented by such small minded comment's that today was the last that will be tolerated. thanks to all who participated, we have lost a member. way to (expletive deleted) go!!!!!! / :ireful:

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