Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Warzone 2.1.x series. (Unsupported--read only!)
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Idiom
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Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Idiom » 07 Sep 2008, 20:34

I play mainly TA, and remember Warzone, but the Beta 4 has really revived Warzone for me.

I was playing B4 on Beggar's Canyon with the default Aivolution mod it installed with.
What happened was so awesome I had to register to report this. I have no idea if this is a bug or what, and if so it's the greatest undocumented feature I've ever seen in a game.

I can't recall the exact order I went up the tech tree, but was shooting for Python/Tracks/Hyper-Velocity.
When I select the Python body, then select a weapon, a second weapon slot in the designer comes up. When a designate another weapon in the 2nd slot, the tank gets a fully functioning 2nd weapon just below and in front of the main. They shoot independently, with seperate reload bars, but aim at the same target.
When I go to change the body to another, the 2nd weapon slot remains, so I can do this on even the Bug chassis. It even works on VTOLS!

I've got Coax heavy MGs on my cannon tanks now. My artillery has secondary cannons. My VTOLS are like gunships now. Epic.

Because the second slot only came when I chose the Python, but then remained for the other bodies once I had done so, and a few other inconsistencies when designing, I'm fairly certain this is a bug.

I have a save and can take some screen shots if needed.

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Zarel
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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Zarel » 07 Sep 2008, 20:40

And here I thought multiturret had been disabled for the 2.1 branch because it was too buggy...

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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by EvilGuru » 07 Sep 2008, 20:45

It was mainline for quite a while; medium bodies could have two weapons; heavy bodies three. However, 95% of the possible combinations of weapons + body looked ugly. Furthermore the code was quite haphazard and did not handle corner-cases very well (one weapon not firing even when a target is in range etc.)

Therefore it is likely to be disabled for the final 2.1 release. Well — disabled in the sense that none of the bodies will allow more than one weapon — the code will still be there. This allows for adventurous modders to make use of the functionality or restore it (by changing the number of weapons allowed per body).

It is likely that the new major outing the code will receive will be for large navel units.

Regards, Freddie.

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kipman725
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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by kipman725 » 07 Sep 2008, 23:15

nooooooo I love the multi weapon on the current beta you can get them only on python and other heavy bodies and only two turrets but duel heavy cannon is the greatest! I have not noticed any problems with using them only on heavy bodies.

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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by EvilGuru » 07 Sep 2008, 23:48

kipman725 wrote:nooooooo I love the multi weapon on the current beta you can get them only on python and other heavy bodies and only two turrets but duel heavy cannon is the greatest! I have not noticed any problems with using them only on heavy bodies.
Try some of the more outlandish combinations — you'll soon see the problem. The code also needs work in order to prevent some of the targeting problems.

Regards, Freddie.

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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Idiom » 08 Sep 2008, 01:38

I was beginning to think it was an unfinished feature.

The 2nd turret does have some aiming problems. Sometimes it refuses to shoot at all. The extra weight on the vehicle makes it terribly unwieldy, but broadsiding with dual cannons is really neat.
you can get them only on python and other heavy bodies
Not from what I've done. Had a bug/wheels/2xpepperpot. Could barely turn, but it could dish out some serious firepower.
This allows for adventurous modders to make use of the functionality or restore it (by changing the number of weapons allowed per body).
I could restore up to 3 turrets total?
Is it possible to get support turrets and weapons on one chassis, or multiple support turrets?
It is likely that the new major outing the code will receive will be for large navel units.
Now that will be awesome to see.

Were multi-turrets originally started by Pumpkin Studios, or was that the open source development?

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Buginator
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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Buginator » 08 Sep 2008, 07:39

Yeah, it is unfinished.
Yes, Pumpkin did have partial support (I think).

If we let it be enabled, then people will keep posting about all the issues that are wrong with them.
That isn't good. We know it has issues, but currently, nobody has time to work on this.
If anyone wants to debug all the issues, then by all means! :3

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Zarel
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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Zarel » 08 Sep 2008, 17:47

Buginator wrote:Yeah, it is unfinished.
Yes, Pumpkin did have partial support (I think).

If we let it be enabled, then people will keep posting about all the issues that are wrong with them.
That isn't good. We know it has issues, but currently, nobody has time to work on this.
If anyone wants to debug all the issues, then by all means! :3
I'm currently looking though it, but I'm not very familiar with the code yet. I can't find the parts of the code that handle droid orders and actions.

I think the problem might be that the other turret isn't actually being ordered to shoot, and the only reason it usually does is that the unit AI has a check that makes it more likely to shoot at the same thing neighboring units are shooting at.

By the way, all the multiturret code references "watermelon". Anyone know what that's supposed to be a reference to?

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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Per » 08 Sep 2008, 22:52

Zarel wrote:I'm currently looking though it, but I'm not very familiar with the code yet. I can't find the parts of the code that handle droid orders and actions.

I think the problem might be that the other turret isn't actually being ordered to shoot, and the only reason it usually does is that the unit AI has a check that makes it more likely to shoot at the same thing neighboring units are shooting at.

By the way, all the multiturret code references "watermelon". Anyone know what that's supposed to be a reference to?
Orders are in src/order.c and actions in src/action.c ;)

Watermelon is the nickname of the person who wrote much of the multiweapon code.

I am experimentally rewriting some of the weapon management code at the moment. I can post a patch once I get it cleaned up and up to date. The idea is to separate weapon control from actions so that the turrets can fire even if you don't have the exactly correct action going on (eg you can fire while self-repairing, or you can have weapon turrets in addition to a non-weapon main turret).

Idiom
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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Idiom » 10 Sep 2008, 01:01

I am experimentally rewriting some of the weapon management code at the moment. I can post a patch once I get it cleaned up and up to date. The idea is to separate weapon control from actions so that the turrets can fire even if you don't have the exactly correct action going on (eg you can fire while self-repairing, or you can have weapon turrets in addition to a non-weapon main turret).
Sorry to push, but do you have any idea of an ETA on that?

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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Per » 11 Sep 2008, 21:28

Idiom wrote:
I am experimentally rewriting some of the weapon management code at the moment. I can post a patch once I get it cleaned up and up to date. The idea is to separate weapon control from actions so that the turrets can fire even if you don't have the exactly correct action going on (eg you can fire while self-repairing, or you can have weapon turrets in addition to a non-weapon main turret).
Sorry to push, but do you have any idea of an ETA on that?
First version up at https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1104

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Olrox
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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Olrox » 06 Oct 2008, 19:50

Actually, the bug occurs when you select any heavy body, any propulsion and then selected only the first weapon. Before selecting the second slot, you could change the body that the slot would be still empty for selection, because there's no "weapon restriction" for changing between different bodies. The main solution for the bug could be inserting a script like the one that clears all the weapons when you change from ground propulsion to VTOL propulsion.
Hope thet it helps.

As for leaving\removing it from the final, I think there should be something that limited the type of weapon on the second slot (or both, should need testing, tweaking and balancing etc), so you couldn't get something as scary as a Hellraiser Hydra Vengeance Tracks or a VTOL Hyper Velocity Cannon Hydra Retaliation VTOL...
Because definetely that kind of vehicle is not a bit, but entirely...
SPARTA!!!!!! :scream: :!!!:
:D
That last part was kinda offtopic, but was related to the bug directly, sorry bout that.
Hope my briefing was good enough.

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Olrox
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Re: Is this intended? (Multiple weapons per unit)

Post by Olrox » 06 Oct 2008, 19:52

P.S.: Oh, and the second turret won't fire in any way if the unit is ordered to hold position.

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