The balance changes in 2.3.5

The projects speaking tube.
Add your two cents if you want to.
User avatar
MetalWarrior95
Trained
Trained
Posts: 332
Joined: 16 May 2010, 01:26
Location: Trnje Neighbourhood, Zagreb, Croatia

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by MetalWarrior95 »

Well they could attack other vtols but vtols with mg arent that useless...they could attack some weak structures,oil deposits,generators,walls or weak outdated buildings...
Il crush you!If i get crushed,il crush you twice stronger!!If you crush me again,then il blow up your PC!!
User avatar
Zarel
Elite
Elite
Posts: 5770
Joined: 03 Jan 2008, 23:35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Zarel »

3drts wrote:BTW... Twin 50 cals and rockets?
What is this, world war two?
Wait no, in WW 2, twin 50 cals would be underarmed - german planes that had only a twin MG mount would also carry 20mm or 30mm cannons. (me 109, fw 190)
3drts wrote:AA weapons that aren't mounted on aircraft, are only not mounted due to weight concerns.
Flak cannons, need to be so big to get enough range, an aircraft can get much closer, and doesn't need the range, and the weight would be a serious drawback (however, oversize rockets carrying similar warheads were used by the Germans, although rockets gave a whole lot fewer shots, each counted for more when fired from an aircraft that could get much closer, and level or above the bombers)
Kacen wrote:That and I don't know any occurrence of air-to-air flak weapons.
:|

What exactly are you guys saying here? Can we like unify the proposal?

Right now, it sounds like I should get rid of the VTOL Flak Cannon, and add a VTOL Hurricane.
Kacen wrote:Actually I partially agree with him. Giving a VTOL an air-to-air or even air-to-ground machine gun with A LOT of ammo, hell even infinite, I would have no objections against.
I've been experimenting with increasing the ammo loadout of MG and laser weapons. We'll see how it goes.

Also: Would anyone care if I got rid of the VTOL MG and VTOL TMG? I can't imagine anyone getting VTOLs before HMG...
3drts wrote:hey, back in 2.2 something heavy bodies allowed two turrets
2.1 betas and 2.2 betas. They've never been in a stable version (in 2.1/2.2, for stability reasons; in 2.2/2.3, for balance reasons).
KukY
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1859
Joined: 20 Mar 2009, 21:56

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by KukY »

Zarel wrote:Also: Would anyone care if I got rid of the VTOL MG and VTOL TMG? I can't imagine anyone getting VTOLs before HMG...
Not at all. They just clutter the design screen. And you could make the MG and TMG obsoloted by HMG.
User avatar
NoQ
Special
Special
Posts: 6226
Joined: 24 Dec 2009, 11:35
Location: /var/zone

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by NoQ »

I like using MG vtols for scouting. I would even ask for them not to be obsoleted by AG. We need a cheap scouting vtol. :wink:
KukY
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1859
Joined: 20 Mar 2009, 21:56

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by KukY »

hao wrote:We need a cheap scouting vtol. :wink:
viewtopic.php?t=6050&p=64626 :wink:
Kacen
Trained
Trained
Posts: 294
Joined: 19 Feb 2007, 19:28

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Kacen »

Zarel wrote:
What exactly are you guys saying here? Can we like unify the proposal?

Right now, it sounds like I should get rid of the VTOL Flak Cannon, and add a VTOL Hurricane.
I'm not for that ether. It's just that mounting anti-air guns on an aircraft, by that I mean the turrets, looks off. In fact mounting hurricanes would look even more terrible. A quad AA gun mounted on an aircraft just looks wrong.

I think VTOL air-to-air weapons need to be specifically made for VTOLs.
franek12354
Trained
Trained
Posts: 214
Joined: 06 Aug 2010, 18:50

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by franek12354 »

maybe VTOL [somethink liek lander or tank tiller] rockets
Deus Siddis
Trained
Trained
Posts: 235
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 06:58

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Deus Siddis »

Kacen wrote: I'm not for that ether. It's just that mounting anti-air guns on an aircraft, by that I mean the turrets, looks off. In fact mounting hurricanes would look even more terrible. A quad AA gun mounted on an aircraft just looks wrong.

I think VTOL air-to-air weapons need to be specifically made for VTOLs.
That's kind of a ridiculous argument though given VTOLs already reuse tank bodies as well as ground weapons for their ordnance with the exception of bombs.

Warzone's art direction has never cared much about what looks realistic. So unless this will be changed across the board, there's no particular aesthetic problem with reusing the already available ground AA for VTOLs.

And the alternative would just clutter things up even more with something like another six AA weapons, on top of the existing six ground AA and various random weapons with limited AA ability like hyper velocity cannons (yet not railguns; are railguns sub hyper velocity?!) and cyborg-only-lancer and quickly obsoleted pod rockets (but not vehicular lancer, TK or Scourge?!).

AA is starting to get really confusing.
stiv
Warzone 2100 Team Member
Warzone 2100 Team Member
Posts: 876
Joined: 18 Jul 2008, 04:41
Location: 45N 86W

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by stiv »

AA is starting to get really confusing.
It would be nice to have a proposal or plan *before* beginning to mess with AA.
User avatar
Zarel
Elite
Elite
Posts: 5770
Joined: 03 Jan 2008, 23:35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Zarel »

Kacen wrote:I'm not for that ether. It's just that mounting anti-air guns on an aircraft, by that I mean the turrets, looks off. In fact mounting hurricanes would look even more terrible. A quad AA gun mounted on an aircraft just looks wrong.
That's hardly a large problem. We can add the AA gun now, and fix the graphics later (whenever Olrox/Mangust have time, really). The question is, lore-wise, would an AA gun on an aircraft make sense?
Deus Siddis wrote:Warzone's art direction has never cared much about what looks realistic. So unless this will be changed across the board, there's no particular aesthetic problem with reusing the already available ground AA for VTOLs.
Well, some weapons look sillier mounted on VTOLs than others. I agree that Hurricanes would need new art if mounted on a VTOL, but we'll just do that, and so that's not really something worth discussing in greater detail in a balance discussion.
Deus Siddis wrote:AA is starting to get really confusing.
Here's a simple overview:

Ground AA:

Poor: HPV
Average: MGs, lasers, minipod, borgs
Good: Sunburst, Flak Cannon
Very good: Hurricane line, Avenger line, Stormy

Air AA:

Exactly the same as above, for the subset of the above that can be mounted on aircraft.
Kacen
Trained
Trained
Posts: 294
Joined: 19 Feb 2007, 19:28

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Kacen »

We should allow needle guns to target aircraft.
KukY
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1859
Joined: 20 Mar 2009, 21:56

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by KukY »

Kacen wrote:We should allow needle guns to target aircraft.
All VTOL weapons, excluding bombs should be able to target air.
User avatar
Terminator
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1077
Joined: 05 Aug 2006, 13:46
Location: Ukraine
Contact:

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Terminator »

What about MG tech-branch ? I played a lot in MP, & those slight changes have not been noticed. Is there any thoughts about balancing MG's damage or ROF, or something. ?
Death is the only way out... sh*t Happens !

Russian-speaking Social network Group http://vk.com/warzone2100
Kacen
Trained
Trained
Posts: 294
Joined: 19 Feb 2007, 19:28

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Kacen »

KukY wrote:
Kacen wrote:We should allow needle guns to target aircraft.
All VTOL weapons, excluding bombs should be able to target air.
I mean even needle guns mounted on the ground.

I mean logic dictates that if an HVC can target air, then at the very least the needle gun should be able to; more effectively I might add.
User avatar
Verin
Trained
Trained
Posts: 313
Joined: 11 Jun 2010, 00:08
Location: Chicago suburbs USA
Contact:

Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Verin »

Heres my experience from attacking with vtols.

Naturally a multiplayer vtol attack in in clusters. This makes the sunburst AA somewhat too powerful, the rockets that are intended to miss the target, usually hit another. The flak cannon in perfect, it does great damage and splash, but with a restricted fire rate so it's not ridiculous.

Overall I think the sunburst AA should fire a few less rockets per salvo.
My multiplayer name is Verin
Usually in ideas and suggestions.
I Am also an ASE certified technician.
Locked