The balance changes in 2.3.5

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MetalWarrior95
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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by MetalWarrior95 » 08 Sep 2010, 11:41

Well they could attack other vtols but vtols with mg arent that useless...they could attack some weak structures,oil deposits,generators,walls or weak outdated buildings...
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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Zarel » 08 Sep 2010, 17:33

3drts wrote:BTW... Twin 50 cals and rockets?
What is this, world war two?
Wait no, in WW 2, twin 50 cals would be underarmed - german planes that had only a twin MG mount would also carry 20mm or 30mm cannons. (me 109, fw 190)
3drts wrote:AA weapons that aren't mounted on aircraft, are only not mounted due to weight concerns.
Flak cannons, need to be so big to get enough range, an aircraft can get much closer, and doesn't need the range, and the weight would be a serious drawback (however, oversize rockets carrying similar warheads were used by the Germans, although rockets gave a whole lot fewer shots, each counted for more when fired from an aircraft that could get much closer, and level or above the bombers)
Kacen wrote:That and I don't know any occurrence of air-to-air flak weapons.
:|

What exactly are you guys saying here? Can we like unify the proposal?

Right now, it sounds like I should get rid of the VTOL Flak Cannon, and add a VTOL Hurricane.
Kacen wrote:Actually I partially agree with him. Giving a VTOL an air-to-air or even air-to-ground machine gun with A LOT of ammo, hell even infinite, I would have no objections against.
I've been experimenting with increasing the ammo loadout of MG and laser weapons. We'll see how it goes.

Also: Would anyone care if I got rid of the VTOL MG and VTOL TMG? I can't imagine anyone getting VTOLs before HMG...
3drts wrote:hey, back in 2.2 something heavy bodies allowed two turrets
2.1 betas and 2.2 betas. They've never been in a stable version (in 2.1/2.2, for stability reasons; in 2.2/2.3, for balance reasons).

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by KukY » 08 Sep 2010, 17:53

Zarel wrote:Also: Would anyone care if I got rid of the VTOL MG and VTOL TMG? I can't imagine anyone getting VTOLs before HMG...
Not at all. They just clutter the design screen. And you could make the MG and TMG obsoloted by HMG.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by NoQ » 08 Sep 2010, 18:45

I like using MG vtols for scouting. I would even ask for them not to be obsoleted by AG. We need a cheap scouting vtol. :wink:

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by KukY » 08 Sep 2010, 18:48

hao wrote:We need a cheap scouting vtol. :wink:
viewtopic.php?t=6050&p=64626 :wink:

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Kacen » 09 Sep 2010, 12:48

Zarel wrote:
What exactly are you guys saying here? Can we like unify the proposal?

Right now, it sounds like I should get rid of the VTOL Flak Cannon, and add a VTOL Hurricane.
I'm not for that ether. It's just that mounting anti-air guns on an aircraft, by that I mean the turrets, looks off. In fact mounting hurricanes would look even more terrible. A quad AA gun mounted on an aircraft just looks wrong.

I think VTOL air-to-air weapons need to be specifically made for VTOLs.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by franek12354 » 09 Sep 2010, 17:26

maybe VTOL [somethink liek lander or tank tiller] rockets
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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Deus Siddis » 09 Sep 2010, 17:51

Kacen wrote: I'm not for that ether. It's just that mounting anti-air guns on an aircraft, by that I mean the turrets, looks off. In fact mounting hurricanes would look even more terrible. A quad AA gun mounted on an aircraft just looks wrong.

I think VTOL air-to-air weapons need to be specifically made for VTOLs.
That's kind of a ridiculous argument though given VTOLs already reuse tank bodies as well as ground weapons for their ordnance with the exception of bombs.

Warzone's art direction has never cared much about what looks realistic. So unless this will be changed across the board, there's no particular aesthetic problem with reusing the already available ground AA for VTOLs.

And the alternative would just clutter things up even more with something like another six AA weapons, on top of the existing six ground AA and various random weapons with limited AA ability like hyper velocity cannons (yet not railguns; are railguns sub hyper velocity?!) and cyborg-only-lancer and quickly obsoleted pod rockets (but not vehicular lancer, TK or Scourge?!).

AA is starting to get really confusing.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by stiv » 09 Sep 2010, 18:03

AA is starting to get really confusing.
It would be nice to have a proposal or plan *before* beginning to mess with AA.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Zarel » 09 Sep 2010, 22:01

Kacen wrote:I'm not for that ether. It's just that mounting anti-air guns on an aircraft, by that I mean the turrets, looks off. In fact mounting hurricanes would look even more terrible. A quad AA gun mounted on an aircraft just looks wrong.
That's hardly a large problem. We can add the AA gun now, and fix the graphics later (whenever Olrox/Mangust have time, really). The question is, lore-wise, would an AA gun on an aircraft make sense?
Deus Siddis wrote:Warzone's art direction has never cared much about what looks realistic. So unless this will be changed across the board, there's no particular aesthetic problem with reusing the already available ground AA for VTOLs.
Well, some weapons look sillier mounted on VTOLs than others. I agree that Hurricanes would need new art if mounted on a VTOL, but we'll just do that, and so that's not really something worth discussing in greater detail in a balance discussion.
Deus Siddis wrote:AA is starting to get really confusing.
Here's a simple overview:

Ground AA:

Poor: HPV
Average: MGs, lasers, minipod, borgs
Good: Sunburst, Flak Cannon
Very good: Hurricane line, Avenger line, Stormy

Air AA:

Exactly the same as above, for the subset of the above that can be mounted on aircraft.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Kacen » 11 Sep 2010, 03:53

We should allow needle guns to target aircraft.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by KukY » 11 Sep 2010, 08:45

Kacen wrote:We should allow needle guns to target aircraft.
All VTOL weapons, excluding bombs should be able to target air.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Terminator » 11 Sep 2010, 09:06

What about MG tech-branch ? I played a lot in MP, & those slight changes have not been noticed. Is there any thoughts about balancing MG's damage or ROF, or something. ?
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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Kacen » 11 Sep 2010, 17:22

KukY wrote:
Kacen wrote:We should allow needle guns to target aircraft.
All VTOL weapons, excluding bombs should be able to target air.
I mean even needle guns mounted on the ground.

I mean logic dictates that if an HVC can target air, then at the very least the needle gun should be able to; more effectively I might add.

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Re: The balance changes in 2.3.5

Post by Verin » 12 Sep 2010, 21:06

Heres my experience from attacking with vtols.

Naturally a multiplayer vtol attack in in clusters. This makes the sunburst AA somewhat too powerful, the rockets that are intended to miss the target, usually hit another. The flak cannon in perfect, it does great damage and splash, but with a restricted fire rate so it's not ridiculous.

Overall I think the sunburst AA should fire a few less rockets per salvo.
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