I think we should mainly calculate the damage against units instead of structures because the key point of the game is to fight units and not structures.
True but the flaw in that is when units have less armour vs structures you might not invoke the one third rule vs units but you would still be invoking it vs structures so you need to balance vs the most heavily armoured target on the level and then work backwards
so on alpha 5 the most heavily armoured target is there structures not there units.
That's why I said mainly and not exclusively. And also against structures in alpha 05, the one-third-rule doesn't take place for the light cannon with two damage upgrades as you have calculated yourself but only for the HMG because of the modifier for hard structures.
This would make the medium cannon with two damage upgrades slightly weaker than the lancer with one upgrade, the heavy cannon would be a viable alternative in alpha 12 against hovers and would be slightly weaker than the lancer after the other two damage upgrades in beta 1.
if i where you I'd test those values on alpha 10 because you may find that those values are a bit to weak, i mean i know from using lancers at 256 damage on alpha 10 that its still tricky to knock off there units without loosing your own and that's when heavy cannons are underpowered if heavy cannons are almost as strong as lancers then actually you might end up with a real up hill battle on your hands on alpha 10 with those values.
Yes, it will be tricky not to lose units in alpha 10, especially when the tracked, mantis body, heavy cannon units of the NP comes in. But I played the campaign from alpha 01 until beta 06 with a base damage for the lancer of 120 and could win the level. And heavy cannons in alpha 10 are weaker than the lancer. The reason why they are a viable alternative in alpha 12 is that of the modifier of 120 for cannons against hovers. Lancers have only a modifier of 80 against hovers. Against tracked units, they are weaker. That they are a viable alternative to the lancer in beta 01 is because of the two other damage upgrades for the cannons in beta 01.
How I usually play alpha 10:
At the LZ of the NP in the NE, SE and S, I place each a group of 8 lancers attached to a commander. To achieve that I set the rally points of three of my factories near to the LZ of the NP, recycle my units at the end of alpha 09 and build my combat units new. During alpha 06 I had already built a ring of repair facilities at all these three NP LZ so that my units can get repaired very soon. At the LZ in the west and the northwest, I built walls so that the cyborgs can't move in the direction of my base. Behind the walls, I set the other two rally points of my factories and produce trucks there during alpha 09. Behind these trucks are some repair facilities so that the trucks can't be destroyed and the trucks immediately repair the walls when the cyborgs attack them. After my three combat groups destroyed the NP reinforcements I recycle some of the lancers and build new bombards and a sensor. With the bombards, I destroy the cyborgs and use the time to get prepared for alpha 11. I admit that it is difficult not to lose units in the SE corner because of the small space you have to manoeuvre.
If you think lancers are too weak in alpha 10 we can give the lancer the third damage upgrade during alpha 09. But this would mean that medium cannons are no longer a viable alternative to the lancer in alpha 10 and 11. With a base damage of 120 and three damage upgrades of each 25 %, the damage of the lancer would be 210 per rocket before modifier and enemy armour.
Bethrezen wrote:now obviously i haven't calculated that out but common sense tells you if the lancer has a base of 120 and a rate of fire of 10 then the there is no way the heavy cannon can only have a base damage of 75 and a rate of fire of 13 because that wouldn't even come close to matching the lancer you would need to either significantly increase the rate of fire or increase the upgrades or increase the base damage and or / a combination of all 3
That's right but as I wrote above, in alpha 10 and 11 the heavy cannon is weaker than the lancer. And the project get the heavy cannon during alpha 11 so that the player will use it at the earliest in alpha 12. And as I also wrote above even that the heavy cannon is weaker than the lancer, because of the modifier against hovers it's a viable alternative in alpha 12. And during beta 01 the cannons get two more damage upgrades so that the heavy cannon can match the lancer. And with the current values in the camBalance mod we don't have these problems. It was a suggestion because you wanted to change the current values. I'm still of the opinion that we should move on with the current values in the camBalance mod.