Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 07 Oct 2017, 16:00

Finished testing beta 7 with latest master. Behavior during the game looks good, all factories are working, also after saveloads, vtol's are correctly attacking and get stopped after the CO HQ were destroyed. Generally I'm not sure, if the throttle time for the enemy vtol's is to short or not. With insane difficulty the throttle time of 2 min get cut to 1:20 and 6 lancer vtol's are able to cut everything in pieces except an experienced commander. It is doable, but maybe a bit too tough. Like I said in my testing of beta 5 we should wait until Philosopher and Bethrezen tested that level before making changes.

Two things went wrong: When I reloaded a saved game where my vtol is still flying it became extremely slow. When I click on it and give it the order to fly back to the rearming pad it get back to normal speed. It was also nearly indestroyable, but that could belong to the fact, that I used the biffer baker cheat in some reloaded levels before, but not in this one. And when I reloaded saved games from the time short after landing I get an error message like that:

error |02:37:20: [mapLoad:854] savegames/campaign/beta 07-02/game.map: Unable to add gateway 1 - dropping it

But not when I reloaded saved games from later on. It has also no influence to the ongoing of the level.

@Berserk Cyborg
I looked into the code of beta 8 and get a little bit confused. In line 49 you set a comment, that the nothwest group attacks after one minute. In line 224 is a queue of two minutes set. Same with the base attack group (line 76 and line 225) and the enable time for the factories (line 101 and line 226.) Am I understanding something wrong or are your comments not correct?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 07 Oct 2017, 16:44

Most likely forgot to update the comments for Beta 8. The biffer baker cheat can live on though saves from what I have tested. Never seen the slow VTOL one, probably you should create a ticket. Don't know what that gateway one is about.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 07 Oct 2017, 18:18

Ok just updated

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12714&start=105#p137443

To include a couple more general issue which have been identified, but are to the best of my knowledge still to be fixed.

[edit]

Alpha 05

Just noticed a minor bug on alpha 05 the new paradigm units are not making use of there repair bay like they should be
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 08 Oct 2017, 15:13

Finished testing beta 8. When I played yesterday evening the behavior looks good. I noticed just two thing: The tanks of the first attack group retreat to the NW base as soon as the cyborgs of that group get destroyed. And then they stay at the exit of the NW base until I attacked that base and prevented the produced cyborgs to attack me as you can see at the picture below. There are 11 cyborgs and latest with 9 one of the groups of the two cyborg factories is big enough to start an attack. From time to time they switched through the tanks, but all the time with big problems to do so. And during the game they get even more reinforcements from the east that also sat there and closed the pathway.

wz2100-20171007_212537-SUB_2_6.jpg


And later I found my trucks with decreased hitpoints. As you can see the truck has only 950 instead of the correct 2375 hitpoints. At all I had three trucks with decreased hitpoints. And they had all 2375 when I started the test from the end of beta 7.

wz2100-20171007_221347-SUB_2_6.jpg


Today I reloaded a saved game from the beginning of beta 8 to have a look at the queue times. I sat around my LZ and did not touch the in debug mode red marked zone north of my LZ (trigger area?). After two minutes the northern group attacked me like described above, after three minutes the cyborgs in the east do nothing. Then a second group from the north attacked my and retreat after the first two or three units get destroyed. After the queue to enable the factories only the left of the two cyborg factories in the NW base and the left of the heavy factories in the middle base started producing units. The other four not. Just after I went into that red marked zone the cyborgs in the east attacked me and the other four factories produced units. Is that intended?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 08 Oct 2017, 19:32

Alpha 08

Ok so just going over this one and I noticed a small issue when I reloaded my save after activating the second drop zone for some reason the walls of the enemy base explode and I get the enemy base destroyed message when there is still 1 turrets standing as you can see in these screen shots.

Image Image

I also noted some slightly odd behaviour with there builders for some reason this builder is triggering way too soon, as you can see in this screen shot.

Image

This may be related to the fact that the trigger zone is to big because you should only get the base detected message if you go along the outer part of the trail like this.

Image

If you go this way round

Image

You shouldn't get the enemy base detected message and the builders and such shouldn't not trigger or at least that’s how it is on v1.10

i also note that this builder appears to just sit there doing nothing.

Image

Also did you speed up the production rates on there factories by chance ?

Something else i notice if you are trying to emulate the behaviour seen on v1.10 then when i attack this bunker

Image

on v1.10 that would normally provoke a retaliatory response from there near by units but that seems not to happen on master.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby -Philosopher- » 08 Oct 2017, 20:11

Hey all. Back after a short break and continuing my "vertical" comparisons...

Alpha 03 cont.

The away mission phase of this stage plays very differently on Master to how it plays on 1.10 - 3.1.5, for the reasons documented previously ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12714&start=255#p138041)
Since I wrote that post, many of the other stages have become a lot better aligned to how they used to be, so Alpha 03 is starting to feel like a bit of an exception now (for more than just the timer changes). Worth another look?

Alpha 04

Mortar autoloader is available to research on this stage in Master, but not in 1.10 - 3.1.5.

Otherwise, seems to be a pretty faithful recreation of the original now, particularly with the victory conditions corrected.

However, although I wouldn’t expect to deal with it as part of this exercise, I should mention overall balance differences are very noticeable on this stage. On master I can drive through the northern scav base with barely a scratch in one push. On 3.1.5, I’ll probably have to repair the majority of my units afterwards; on 1.10 and 2.3.8 that is likely to be true even before I’ve destroyed the base - so it usually takes 2 or 3 pushes to completely destroy it. Scavs seem to be particularly weak on master (and 3.2.3 I think). From viewtopic.php?f=42&t=13677 I now understand the campaign effectively has its own stats for things. Have they changed in the port to jscam?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby -Philosopher- » 08 Oct 2017, 20:31

Bethrezen wrote:Ok just updated

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12714&start=105#p137443

To include a couple more general issue which have been identified, but are to the best of my knowledge still to be fixed.

This is a really useful list (and I've bookmarked it), but I think we should be raising tickets for the things in it (right, @Beserk Cyborg?), or identifying the existing ones. I've made a start:
- No. 8 on your list is #3907. Are there any more open in relation to this?
- No. 14 on your list is #4303, which I've reopened (if you agree with my thoughts on it, please add supporting comments)
- I know No. 18 already exists. Anyone know the reference for it?

Re. the rest, I'm thinking we should each raise a few?

I'm going to raise a ticket for No. 2 next unless there's already a ticket open for it - anybody know? [Edit] Have raised this now as #4651

After that, my next priority is how CB sensors work in 3.2.x. Anyone else use them on mobile units?

FYI, I've also raised #4644 for the save-game-reload-lock-up issue I reported a while back.

Also - should we be handling this in a separate thread (starting with @Bethrezen's "sticky" post)? Seems a slightly distinct topic of discussion and would maybe make it easier to find?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 08 Oct 2017, 20:41

Bethrezen wrote:Just noticed a minor bug on alpha 05 the new paradigm units are not making use of there repair bay like they should be
Fixed. I wonder, should all enemy groups have a default repair health percentage? If so, then what percentage?

Bethrezen wrote:Also did you speed up the production rates on there factories by chance ?
Nope. You still have a save where that base exploded?

Alpha 3 pre-away mission now has a 10 minute timer at the beginning, then resets to the original 15 minutes once the module is built. Beta 8 defensive group bunching has been fixed and the trigger north of the LZ will activate all the time based factories.

Probably will have another mod available shortly.

-Philosopher- wrote:This is a really useful list (and I've bookmarked it), but I think we should be raising tickets for the things in it (right, @Beserk Cyborg?), or identifying the existing ones.
Yep. Tickets are easier to find than a forum post.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby -Philosopher- » 08 Oct 2017, 22:07

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
Bethrezen wrote:Just noticed a minor bug on alpha 05 the new paradigm units are not making use of there repair bay like they should be
Fixed. I wonder, should all enemy groups have a default repair health percentage? If so, then what percentage?

Depends... on how it was done in wzscript IMO. Was there a default there, or were retreat/repair behaviours set on a case by case basis?
I haven't looked into it, but I suspect the answer is the latter. I imagine they'd be different from group to group depending on what each group's objectives are. e.g. attack at all costs will make sense for some, run away at the first opportunity for others, etc.

Berserk Cyborg wrote:Alpha 3 pre-away mission now has a 10 minute timer at the beginning, then resets to the original 15 minutes once the module is built.

Nice one - thanks. I'll do a quick check on it when you drop the mod.

On an unrelated thing... @Bethrezen (or anyone else), don't suppose you know how to cheat to view the whole map in 1.10?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 08 Oct 2017, 22:29

This is a really useful list (and I've bookmarked it), but I think we should be raising tickets for the things in it (right, @Beserk Cyborg?), or identifying the existing ones. I've made a start:

- No. 8 on your list is #3907. Are there any more open in relation to this?
- No. 14 on your list is #4303, which I've reopened (if you agree with my thoughts on it, please add supporting comments)
- I know No. 18 already exists. Anyone know the reference for it?

Re. the rest, I'm thinking we should each raise a few?

I'm going to raise a ticket for No. 2 next unless there's already a ticket open for it - anybody know?

After that, my next priority is how CB sensors work in 3.2.x. Anyone else use them on mobile units?

FYI, I've also raised #4644 for the save-game-reload-lock-up issue I reported a while back.

Also - should we be handling this in a separate thread (starting with @Bethrezen's "sticky" post)? Seems a slightly distinct topic of discussion and would maybe make it easier to find?


Berserk Cyborg wrote:
-Philosopher- wrote:This is a really useful list (and I've bookmarked it), but I think we should be raising tickets for the things in it (right, @Beserk Cyborg?), or identifying the existing ones.
Yep. Tickets are easier to find than a forum post.


While you are probably right about making ticket for some of these issues I find trac difficult to use so I much prefer to use the forum, but if one of you wanted to check trac and make tickets for any of these that don’t already have tickets feel free, and if this would be more appropriate in its own topic that's fine to i can copy this stuff to its own thread to make it easer to find that's not a problem I was just trying to keep everything together in one place.

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
Bethrezen wrote:Just noticed a minor bug on alpha 05 the new paradigm units are not making use of there repair bay like they should be


Fixed. I wonder, should all enemy groups have a default repair health percentage? If so, then what percentage?


Humm… to be honest I'm not sure if that would be the best approach, because not all levels have repair bays for the computer to repair there units at, not to mention the fact that that might actually make some missions more difficult than they should be but certainly on levels where the computer does have a repair bay like alpha 05 I would expect the computer to use it.

As for what the retreat point should be, for that you would have to refer to the original source because different units seem to have different points at which they will retreat and this seems to very between levels.

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
Bethrezen wrote:Also did you speed up the production rates on there factories by chance ?
Nope. You still have a save where that base exploded?


yep here ya go think that's the right one

Alpha 08.7z
(64.58 KiB) Downloaded 5 times


-Philosopher- wrote:On an unrelated thing... @Bethrezen (or anyone else), don't suppose you know how to cheat to view the whole map in 1.10?


yeah i already posted that a few pages back just look back through the thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12714&start=360#p138334
Last edited by Bethrezen on 08 Oct 2017, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 08 Oct 2017, 22:40

Vanishing Units Bug

Ok so having just stupidly ran into vanishing units bug, instead of starting again I decided to investigate to see if I can figure out what is going on so I opened the droid.json file in an online editor and as I was poking round inside it and I notice a value that said position 16256, 16256, 302 so clearly that must be the x, y, z coordinates for that unit and those particular coordinates must denote the bottom right hand corner of the map as that is where my units are stuck at the moment.

So I decided to see what would happen if I altered the value so I changed it to 4200, 6500, 0 saved the change and then loaded up the save half expecting it to crash however much to my surprise that didn’t happen and the level loaded fine and low and behold the unit appeared right out side my base right where I expected it to be

Therefore it would appear that my suspicion about what causes the vanishing units bug isn’t far off the mark, the problem isn't that the computer isn't writing the coordinates to the save file when you produce units on an away map and then save on the away map.

The problem appears to be that the computer is writing the wrong coordinates to the save file when you build units on an away map and then save on the away map, which mean that when you reload finish the mission and return to your base your units are not where there supposed to be.

So now that I've tracked down the reason your units end up in the corner of the map when you build units on an away mission and then save and reload hopefully you should be able find out why the script is writing the wrong coordinates to the save file and solve this old and extremely irritating bug.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby -Philosopher- » 08 Oct 2017, 23:58

Bethrezen wrote:
Berserk Cyborg wrote:
-Philosopher- wrote:This is a really useful list (and I've bookmarked it), but I think we should be raising tickets for the things in it (right, @Beserk Cyborg?), or identifying the existing ones.
Yep. Tickets are easier to find than a forum post.

While you are probably right about making ticket for some of these issues I find trac difficult to use so I much prefer to use the forum, but if one of you wanted to check trac and make tickets for any of these that don’t already have tickets feel free, and if this would be more appropriate in its own topic that's fine to i can copy this stuff to its own thread to make it easer to find that's not a problem I was just trying to keep everything together in one place.


I don't mind picking this up as long as no-one minds what order I decide to raise them in (?). @Bethrezen, would you mind copying that post to a new thread? Once you have, just keep editing it, in one place, as you have been, and I'll add another "sticky" post beneath it that I keep up to date with the ticket references as I raise them. I may ask for some screenshots, save games, and/or logs, but I assume that'd be OK.

Bethrezen wrote:
-Philosopher- wrote:On an unrelated thing... @Bethrezen (or anyone else), don't suppose you know how to cheat to view the whole map in 1.10?


yeah i already posted that a few pages back just look back through the thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12714&start=360#p138334

Thought I'd seen it - hence asking you - just couldn't find it when I went looking. Thanks for the link.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 09 Oct 2017, 14:43

I don't mind picking this up as long as no-one minds what order I decide to raise them in (?). @Bethrezen, would you mind copying that post to a new thread? Once you have, just keep editing it, in one place, as you have been, and I'll add another "sticky" post beneath it that I keep up to date with the ticket references as I raise them. I may ask for some screenshots, save games, and/or logs, but I assume that'd be OK.


that's fine, where needed I'll usually post screen shots or attach saves/logs anyway. Where you want me to move it to the development board ?

Alpha 04

Mortar autoloader is available to research on this stage in Master, but not in 1.10 - 3.1.5.


Seems the Mortar autoloader isn't the only tech that has been added that's not normally available, don't think you get the bombard pit in v1.10 either although I've only played as far as alpha 12 on v1.10 so it could be that you get it later on i don't know so I'll just have to see but I'm holding off on going any further with v1.10 for now while i check out the latest round of changes on master.

what might be an idea is to go though each level on v1.10 and then make a note of the research gained on each level and then compare that to master that's not something I've done yet as i wasn't really looking for specific little details like that so I only did that for levels where there was a specific question mark about the research for that level.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 09 Oct 2017, 18:09

Here is a new mod for testing. List of updates so far is here. Of interest is Alpha 3, groups repairing again, and bases no longer exploding when the player does not have a detected base group visible.
Updated-Campaign.wz
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby -Philosopher- » 09 Oct 2017, 18:21

Bethrezen wrote:
I don't mind picking this up as long as no-one minds what order I decide to raise them in (?). @Bethrezen, would you mind copying that post to a new thread? Once you have, just keep editing it, in one place, as you have been, and I'll add another "sticky" post beneath it that I keep up to date with the ticket references as I raise them. I may ask for some screenshots, save games, and/or logs, but I assume that'd be OK.


that's fine, where needed I'll usually post screen shots or attach saves/logs anyway. Where you want me to move it to the development board ?

Dunno - don't have a view. Happy to leave it to your judgement. Just link it back here so we can find it easily.
Also, FYI, I raised No. 2 on the list as #4651

Bethrezen wrote:Seems the Mortar autoloader isn't the only tech that has been added that's not normally available, don't think you get the bombard pit in v1.10 either although I've only played as far as alpha 12 on v1.10 so it could be that you get it later on i don't know so I'll just have to see but I'm holding off on going any further with v1.10 for now while i check out the latest round of changes on master.

Yes, I'd previously noted that as a change in master. Pretty sure bombard pit turns up at the start of beta on 1.10 - 3.1.5, so I expect you'll come across it when you move on. I'll know for sure when I get back to the beta stages myself :)

Bethrezen wrote:what might be an idea is to go though each level on v1.10 and then make a note of the research gained on each level and then compare that to master that's not something I've done yet as i wasn't really looking for specific little details like that so I only did that for levels where there was a specific question mark about the research for that level.

I've been doing this - hence highlighting mortar autoloader. I'm only noting exceptions though - where they're the same I don't bother to say anything ("no news is good news", etc. etc.)
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