Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 10 Aug 2017, 14:49

@ Bethrezen
I think our discussion is very usefull despite we have a different look on it. But it is off-topic here. So I opened a new thread where we can go on with the discussion about the right modifier. http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=13235
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 10 Aug 2017, 15:10

Bethrezen wrote:In case you're not familiar with this bug let me explain, If you build units while on an away mission and then save on the away map and reload that away map save when you finish the away mission and return to your base you will find that the units you built won't be at the rally point they will be in the bottom right corner of the map due to an old bug in the game that has yet to be fixed.

I am familiar with this bug and because of that I destroy everything except one building, save the game and then recycle my units and build it new in the home base. I do that in several stages like alpha 5 and 9 and in also in beta and gamma.

Bethrezen wrote:Most missions on Alpha don’t need tracked units that's overkill not to mention the fact that tracked units simply move to slow, as for keeping your units repaired again for most of the Alpha missions a couple of mobile repair units are sufficient so you don’t need to go back to a repair bay at all.

But then again my squads are all usually attached to experience commanders so they get the damage and armour bonuses so unless I come up against really stiff resistance I usually don’t have to do a lot of trekking back to the repair bay and even if I do being attached to a commander helps because when you send attached units for repair only damage units will go and those units will automatically return to the commander which means that you can continue doing what ever it is your doing uninterrupted with the undamaged units while the damage units get repaired and automatically return to there assigned commander, a useful but lesser know feature of commanders.


This shows, that there are different tactics even with a modifier of 0.75 and I am sure also with a modifier of 0.67. So what you said that with a too tight modifier there would be only one way to solve the stages it is shown with our different way to use our units that this is no real threat.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 10 Aug 2017, 15:33

@ Berserk Cyborg
As soon as I can download the changes you made in commit 57f41f0 as a new master I will start a new testing from the very beginning of alpha campaign. I think with the exception of the messages in the logs we are very close to finish alpha and go on with beta.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 11 Aug 2017, 04:34

I am familiar with this bug and because of that I destroy everything except one building, save the game and then recycle my units and build it new in the home base. I do that in several stages like alpha 5 and 9 and in also in beta and gamma.


As much as possible I try to avoid building/upgrading units on away missions, though this is not always possible, and where it's not possible I'll usually do as much as I can before time runs to low for me to rebuild/upgrade and then save before building either that or I save before I take off and then just play through without saving.

This shows, that there are different tactics even with a modifier of 0.75 and I am sure also with a modifier of 0.67. So what you said that with a too tight modifier there would be only one way to solve the stages it is shown with our different way to use our units that this is no real threat.


Well that’s not quiet what I meant, when I was saying about tight time limits forcing the player to play the level only one, what I was referring to was forcing the player into the position of having to beat the level by steam rolling it with brute force using multiple squads of lancers because you simply don’t have enough time to take a different approach because other weapons system like mortars for example take to long to destroy targets and therefore its not possible to complete the level using those weapons due to the time factor.

what I'm primarily concerned with here is the rush factor, even on insane players shouldn't feel like they are being rushed because that make for a bad player experience but at the same time they shouldn't have excessive amounts of time either because that is equally bad, and this is what I'm aiming for balance wise, something in the middle.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 11 Aug 2017, 12:38

Ok so just updated to the latest master
warzone2100-master-20170808-232615-1589773.exe (08 Aug 2017)

Here are the results so far

Alpha 01, Alpha 02, Alpha 03, Alpha 04, Alpha 05

These all seem fine, no errors, I did get the tile notifications and the notifications about scripts not being ready that I posited about before but that's it

Alpha 06
This seems better though I did have had a couple of occasions were errors have occurred after a reload here are is the log.

Code: Select all
 --- Starting log [C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Desktop\Warzone 2100_portable-master\Warzone 2100 master\logs\WZlog-0810_173646.txt]---
error   |08:46:16: [js_isVTOL:3250] No such droid id 168631 belonging to player 1
error   |08:46:16: [callFunction:209] 0 : __camTacticsTickForGroup(group = '124') at script/campaign/libcampaign.js:1630
error   |08:46:16: [callFunction:209] 1 : <global>() at -1
info    |08:46:16: [callFunction:212] Uncaught exception calling function "__camTacticsTickForGroup" at line 1630: ReferenceError: psDroid failed in js_isVTOL at line 3250
info    |08:46:16: [callFunction:212] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:212 (false), last script event: '<none>'
error   |08:46:21: [js_isVTOL:3250] No such droid id 168631 belonging to player 1
error   |08:46:21: [callFunction:209] 0 : __camTacticsTickForGroup(group = '124') at script/campaign/libcampaign.js:1630
error   |08:46:21: [callFunction:209] 1 : <global>() at -1
info    |08:46:21: [callFunction:212] Uncaught exception calling function "__camTacticsTickForGroup" at line 1630: ReferenceError: psDroid failed in js_isVTOL at line 3250
info    |08:46:21: [callFunction:212] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:212 (false), last script event: '<none>'
error   |08:46:27: [js_isVTOL:3250] No such droid id 168631 belonging to player 1
error   |08:46:27: [callFunction:209] 0 : __camTacticsTickForGroup(group = '124') at script/campaign/libcampaign.js:1630
error   |08:46:27: [callFunction:209] 1 : <global>() at -1
info    |08:46:27: [callFunction:212] Uncaught exception calling function "__camTacticsTickForGroup" at line 1630: ReferenceError: psDroid failed in js_isVTOL at line 3250
info    |08:46:27: [callFunction:212] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:212 (false), last script event: '<none>'


This second one happened when I reloaded the save, after getting timed out coz I wasn’t paying attention.

Code: Select all
--- Starting log [C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Desktop\Warzone 2100_portable-master\Warzone 2100 master\logs\WZlog-0810_204827.txt]---
error   |10:41:33: [intRunWidgets:1575] PlayerHasLost Or Won


I also had one occasion where the menu got stuck and all the buttons stopped working and it wouldn't close either so I had to shut down the game and reload to clear it.

I also note that the factory just to the west of the new paradigms drop zone don’t seem to be sending units to attack me although it does appear to be building them not sure what's going on there it could be that they are simply getting stuck so I'll need to investigate further.

[edit]

Ok so after replaying this again with the deity cheat on so i can see what is happening it would appear there are a couple of things happening here.

First off the units just aren't being sent to attack the player like they should, and even after you get to the canyon between where the factory is located where the drop zone is located, and you trigger the zone there they still don't come and attack you, and even the ones that do try seem to get stuck so it might be an idea to move the rally point for that factory, also i notice that there are scav units getting stuck as well.

Image

For comparison here is the same shot again before i move up and attack.

Image

As you can see in the first screen shot I'm well within the trigger zone for that factory so it should be sending those units to try and stop me but its not now i know the garrison units are by default set to guard so they will only attack you if they see you but normally the units produced from that factory would come and attack.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 11 Aug 2017, 16:50

Buildbot seems to be inactive at the moment so you might want to hold off testing until it reflects the actual master in git. Currently, the NP factories place droids into a group that does literally nothing if the group size is less than four (hence why they sit there). I don't see the point of that behavior so I will either remove the group or make them patrol certain positions.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 12 Aug 2017, 17:21

Can't you upload the latest master exe file exceptionally here?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 13 Aug 2017, 13:20

Currently, the NP factories place droids into a group that does literally nothing if the group size is less than four (hence why they sit there). I don't see the point of that behaviour so I will either remove the group or make them patrol certain positions.


well maybe instead of removing it you could adapt it to actually make it useful because you would assume that on harder difficulties the computer would be smart enough to figure out that to get anywhere against the player they need to attack in force, so what you could do is while they are waiting for enough units to build to form an attack group you could perhaps have them guard or patrol or what have you, so that even if they don't actively come at the player because they don't have enough numbers to form an attack group they will at least make them selves useful.

A know certainly that is what i would do if the roles where reversed and i was the one being attacked, if i don't have enough numbers to go and attack the opponent i will simply have my units guard the area until i have enough numbers and which time i'll have them form up and move out.

If you look at other RTS games this is indeed the sort of behaviour you will see from the computer normally, on lower difficulties the computer will blindly throw units at the players but on harder difficulties the computer will be a bit smarter and will attack in groups.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 13 Aug 2017, 13:32

Bethrezen wrote:on lower difficulties the computer is actually weaker there units deal less damage, and there units take more damage


Is that right?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 13 Aug 2017, 19:37

It should be safe to just put this mod into the autoload mod folder for the time being. The only difference is that the compiled executable will have AI units attack walls from a longer range, if possible.
Updated-Campaign.wz
(92.54 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 13 Aug 2017, 23:38

alfred007 wrote:
Bethrezen wrote:on lower difficulties the computer is actually weaker there units deal less damage, and there units take more damage


Is that right?


Don't know for sure exactly which values scale with difficulty, Berserk Cyborg would have to answer that one but It would seem so.

Make campaign more dynamic with difficulty.
Certain values such as timers, power, and transport times now change with campaign difficulty.


Source: https://github.com/KJeff01/warzone2100/commit/cb19c7672fe915b95795e3af33c63c9d567faccc
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 14 Aug 2017, 00:17

Bethrezen wrote:Don't know for sure exactly which values scale with difficulty.
At the moment it is: power storage/power income rate, mission timers, factory throttles for the enemy, and sometimes certain group management time queues are changed like enemy reinforcements (hit & run vtols, transporters/edge map reinforcements... ). Damage modifiers are automatically changed in the source.

It does not seem like much, but the difference becomes more obvious farther into the campaign.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 14 Aug 2017, 13:57

At the moment it is: power storage/power income rate, mission timers, factory throttles for the enemy, and sometimes certain group management time queues are changed like enemy reinforcements (hit & run vtols, transporters/edge map reinforcements... ). Damage modifiers are automatically changed in the source.

It does not seem like much, but the difference becomes more obvious farther into the campaign.


Is the scaling working on the other difficulties yet or is that still on the to do list as far as implementation goes? Would make sense if its not been done yet since we are still working in ironing out the bugs in alpha on insane

also I take it build bot still down ?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 14 Aug 2017, 17:34

It scales on all difficulties. Bugs in insane are still bugs in easy. You can just use the mod I posted a few posts above until buildbot is working.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 15 Aug 2017, 11:58

Buildbot is online again. Latest master availabe.
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