Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

[Berserk Cyborg]

However I'm wondering what do you think about maybe adding a single scav factory on alpha 03 ? we'd need to tinker with the production rate a little because if it's to fast the player will get squashed since you only have 10 units, but if the production rate is sufficiently slow enough it might just provide the boost in challenge that Alfred is looking for without being so overpowering as Alfred preposed changes where, and without skewing the difficulty of the later levels.

We can give it a try. These ones I think can use the heavy machineguns since they'll be little groups of 4-5. Would you like the factory units to patrol or simply attack the player?

Edit: Here is a factory and it sends them on an attack run.

camBalance.wz

also there's a bug in alpha 04 where the scavs are at the corner of the map

You are using buildbot portables which do not have the libcampaign defense retreat fix. The bug in question pretty much makes all defense groups useless as they want to move to the (0, 0) coordinate cause of undefined values being passed into camDist() when they try to retreat to their defend position.
this is current master.

[WZ2100ModsFAn]

also there's a bug in alpha 04 where the scavs are at the corner of the map

You are using buildbot portables which do not have the libcampaign defense retreat fix. The bug in question pretty much makes all defense groups useless as they want to move to the (0, 0) coordinate cause of undefined values being passed into camDist() when they try to retreat to their defend position.
this is current master.

alright i updated to the latest master on appveyor again.

now checking to see if it's fixed.

i seemed to need to get back to alpha 4.

does anyone have a save with alpha 4 i am going to see if it is fixed.

[WZ2100ModsFAn]

I gave up on alpha 6 cause i couldn't beat it especially with just mortars and sensor turret and hmg

[Bethrezen]

I gave up on alpha 6 cause i couldn't beat it especially with just mortars and sensor turret and hmg

well as far as what we are doing with the mod currently we are only up to around alpha 4/5 any way, also on alpha 6 you get lancer anti tank rockets, mini rockets, on alpha 5 you get cannons so you probably just need to try some other units because actually alpha 6 while a fairly long level isn't terribly difficult.

if you want to try out the changes we are making then you actually have to install and load the mod, if you download the mod and place it here

Warzone 2100_portable-master\Warzone 2100 master\mods\autoload

then when you start the game it should say Mod: camBalance in the top left of the screen when you load up the screen somthing like this

We can give it a try. These ones I think can use the heavy machineguns since they'll be little groups of 4-5. Would you like the factory units to patrol or simply attack the player?

humm... I think the most sensible would be to just have small groups attack the player periodically, as you progress through the level

[alfred007]

I played alpha 02 with all scavengers having twin machine guns and with a squad of 16 machine gun tanks and 16 repair units I was able to destroy the first base in two minutes without losing one unit. Four repair units like Bethrezen use are not enough to survive but if you give every mg tank a repair unit you will have no serious problems to destroy even twin machine gun scavengers.
I was also able to win alpha 03 when the scavengers had heavy machine guns and 2 damage upgrades. My trick to catch the artifact without getting destroyed is I'm going back and forth again and again. I used 4 machine gun, 4 flamer tanks and 2 repair units. I go forth until the flamers shot their first salvo and then go back to my repair units to repair all my tanks. After they were repaired I repeat this. And this way the units protecting the artifact are not all attacking me at the same time. So I could destroy one after the other without losing a unit.
Only because I was asking for a challenge you don't have to modify alpha 03 so much. After all my tries with alpha 03, I'm of the opinion that twin machine guns and two damage upgrades for the scavengers are enough. I think otherwise the level would become too tough for new or less experienced players. Nevertheless, I will give this mod a chance although I think that it's a little bit unfair giving the scavengers a factory when the player can't call in any reinforcements.
I also moved forward to alpha 04 with giving the scavengers the heavy machine gun and the third damage upgrade. You have to be very careful but it's possible to win.

[alfred007]

alright i updated to the latest master on appveyor again.

now checking to see if it's fixed.

i seemed to need to get back to alpha 4.

does anyone have a save with alpha 4 i am going to see if it is fixed.

If you want to see if the changes of a new master version are working in a specific level you have to start from the end of the level before. For alpha 04 this means you have to start again from the end of alpha 03. If you reload a save of alpha 04 the changes doesn't work.

[Bethrezen]

I played alpha 02 with all scavengers having twin machine guns and with a squad of 16 machine gun tanks and 16 repair units I was able to destroy the first base in two minutes without losing one unit. Four repair units like Bethrezen use are not enough to survive but if you give every mg tank a repair unit you will have no serious problems to destroy even twin machine gun scavengers.

Question what are you actual using to attack the first base on alpha 02 me I'm using 18 flamers supported by 4 mobile repair units, it's not easy to take the place out with out loosing units but it's definitely possible, although that’s when you are not replacing the local garrison with twin MG units when you replace then with twin MG units to then 4 mobile repair units aren't enough, because you take damage quicker them you can repair.

After all my tries with alpha 03, I'm of the opinion that twin machine guns and two damage upgrades to the scavengers are enough. I think otherwise the level would become too tough for new or less experienced players. Nevertheless, I will give this mod a chance although I think that it's a little bit unfair giving the scavengers a factory when the player can't call in any reinforcements.

Currently the scav's on alpha 3 have twin MGs and 1 damage upgrade its why I suggested adding the factory because with only 1 damage upgrade then the level is still a little easy for insane.

But adding the factory makes life a little more challenging, although to account for the fact that you can't have reinforcements and you only have 10 units the spawn rate should be turned down, because if the spawn rate was the same as it is on the previous levels then you would be right about it being a bit unfair.

[WZ2100ModsFAn]

alright here's a video explaining it now

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO-dGuTiv24[/youtube]

previous video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcZcRhSYx1M[/youtube]

i just almost failed that mission

i'm lucky if any units are left anymore

alright here are the reasons

reason 1: NP commander is sooo overpowered i cannot take it down because it returns to repair.

reason 2: The medium cannons keep taking down my mortars.

reason 3: I use too many twin machineguns.

reason 4: the rockets are super hard to prevent from attacking

[Bethrezen]

Ok so just given that change a go and actually it's not to bad, its adds a extra bit of challenge with out being over the top crazy difficult I had no issue completing the level still had around 2 minutes on the clock, when i finished but of courses I know what to expect for a less experience player I think that would probably be fine, so long as they remember to bring a couple of mobile repair units with them.

alright here's a video explaining it now

Explaining what exactly I'm not following, what issue is it that you are having a little more information would be helpful.

If you are having issue beating the level then i would suggest using proper tactics I mean I'm not surprised that you are getting killed because for a start you didn't bring any mobile repair units, you are making no attempts to preserve your units, so you are not getting the benefits of rank, you are not recycling and rebuilding your obsolete units and upgrading them to stronger version, as far as i can tell the game is working as intended the only issue I see seems to be poor tactics on your part, if you need help then you are going to have to provide more information.

for example what difficulty are you playing on, are you running the mod that we are currently working on or are you just playing the vanilla game? if you are playing with the mod that we are currently working on then what specifically is the problem that you are having.

if you are experiencing bugs then you need to describe the problem you are seeing and how you recreate it, failing that create a short 30 second clip demonstrating the bug, if you are getting error messages then post the logs.

if you are simply looking for general assistance to help you learn better tactics then there is a walk-through guide here

[Berserk Cyborg]

i just almost failed that mission

i'm lucky if any units are left anymore

alright here are the reasons

1. Try to get better at keeping your units alive. Do not let them take hits constantly to the point they all di, instead shuffle them back towards a safe area to wait for repair once they get low on health.
2. You let the element of surprise go to waste and the New Paradigm factory will begin manufacturing attack groups. Bring in all your units and then attack the New Paradigm. This includes not harming the New Paradigm sensor.
3. Mortars are support weapons. Don't let them take direct hits like that. Always have them follow the lead of a sensor as artillery units do not have the range to hit stuff as effectively without one.
4. Repair units can heal themself when holding (h button)
5. The AI is not merciful, and so you should not be either. Be offensive, don't dwell near the LZ as it will be tougher to approach the base later.
6. Twin-MG is subpar by Alpha 5, always recycle them for heavy-MG and make sure to use half-track propulsion.

It may be helpful to being a truck two and build HMG towers and tank traps.

You could also watch a few videos from Erinyes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pjbUR ... 9AF9720F1D) for a more relaxed campaign experience, or from a pro like NoQ (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8340).

[alfred007]

Question what are you actual using to attack the first base on alpha 02 me I'm using 18 flamers supported by 4 mobile repair units, it's not easy to take the place out with out loosing units but it's definitely possible, although that’s when you are not replacing the local garrison with twin MG units when you replace then with twin MG units to then 4 mobile repair units aren't enough, because you take damage quicker them you can repair.

As I wrote in my second last post I'm using 16 machine gun tanks. And 4 repair units are not enough. With only 4 repair units I would definitely lose units. That's why I give every machine gun tank his personal repair unit I also left 4 more machine gun tanks and 4 repair units back on the road north of the first scavenger base to prevent that scavengers are entering my base. All in all, I have 20 machine gun tanks in this level. If you use machine gun tanks or flamers should make no difference. Also if you use 16 or 18 units. But you need more repair units.

I tested alpha 03 with the factory and I like it. Maybe we can give the scavengers the second damage upgrade but this would be then definitely enough. I suggest we should hide the artifact in the factory. I think after we tested the level with the second damage upgrade for the scavengers we can make a decision.

But adding the factory makes life a little more challenging, although to account for the fact that you can't have reinforcements and you only have 10 units the spawn rate should be turned down, because if the spawn rate was the same as it is on the previous levels then you would be right about it being a bit unfair.

The factory throttle is the longest of the first three levels and seems ok for me. Maybe we should decrease the group size to four units. That would mean that they attack you more often, but with less firepower.

[WZ2100ModsFAn]

Ok so just given that change a go and actually it's not to bad, its adds a extra bit of challenge with out being over the top crazy difficult I had no issue completing the level still had around 2 minutes on the clock, when i finished but of courses I know what to expect for a less experience player I think that would probably be fine, so long as they remember to bring a couple of mobile repair units with them.

alright here's a video explaining it now

Explaining what exactly I'm not following, what issue is it that you are having a little more information would be helpful.

elaborating basically i start off at alpha 5 an fighting the scavs and recovered the mortar and halftracks

then went and took down the rest and returned to LZ

i used mortars and sensor turret to start off to guard in alpha 6

then i used group one to eradicate whatever is at south then i headed east to take down the sensor turret and the babas headed north to take down their base

then i defeated them next i went after the new paradigm and took down only a couple then lost so all i had was my new force and the ones i have guarding

so i waited a while longer till i had enough of them then sent more to attack then i lost them because of their rockets and medium cannons

so then i sent my sensor and mortars when i was about to lose the sensor then i made the mortars attack on their own

last but not least i lost them and the sensor which almost completely failed alpha 6

so then i thought i'm going to give up so i did it

i'm going to try again later and see if i can put in more mobile repair units

i just almost failed that mission

i'm lucky if any units are left anymore

alright here are the reasons

1. Try to get better at keeping your units alive. Do not let them take hits constantly to the point they all di, instead shuffle them back towards a safe area to wait for repair once they get low on health.
2. You let the element of surprise go to waste and the New Paradigm factory will begin manufacturing attack groups. Bring in all your units and then attack the New Paradigm. This includes not harming the New Paradigm sensor.
3. Mortars are support weapons. Don't let them take direct hits like that. Always have them follow the lead of a sensor as artillery units do not have the range to hit stuff as effectively without one.
4. Repair units can heal themself when holding (h button)
5. The AI is not merciful, and so you should not be either. Be offensive, don't dwell near the LZ as it will be tougher to approach the base later.
6. Twin-MG is subpar by Alpha 5, always recycle them for heavy-MG and make sure to use half-track propulsion.

It may be helpful to being a truck two and build HMG towers and tank traps.

You could also watch a few videos from Erinyes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pjbUR ... 9AF9720F1D) for a more relaxed campaign experience, or from a pro like NoQ (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8340).

thanx i will try again later to see if i can take down the NP

and then make it to alpha 7

[Berserk Cyborg]

I tested alpha 03 with the factory and I like it. Maybe we can give the scavengers the second damage upgrade but this would be then definitely enough. I suggest we should hide the artifact in the factory. I think after we tested the level with the second damage upgrade for the scavengers we can make a decision.

Reduced factory group down to 4, put the artifact in the factory, and scavengers use two MG-damage upgrades. Seems to be just about perfect with this setup.

camBalance.wz

[Bethrezen]

Since it sounds like your issue is that you are having trouble beating the level here is a simple little guide for alpha 5 that will let you clear the level with ease and you shouldn't loose any units if you are careful because this is what i do on insane and if it work on insane it will work on the easier difficulties to.

Step 1:
recycle all my units, and upgrade them

first I build 18 heavy machine-gun viper half tracks,
then I build 2 viper half track mobile repair units
next I start constructing 18 mortars and a scanner and 2 more mobile repair units
then I load up 8 heavy machine-gun units and 2 mobile repair units and take off



Step 2: move your 8 heavy machine-gun units and 2 mobile repair units here to activate reinforcements.



Step 3: call in 10 more heavy machine-gun units.

Step 4: move here and knock off the scav's while you wait for your reinforcements.



Step 5:
while you are doing this your heavy machine-gun units should arrive so call in a scanner 2 mobile repair units and 7 mortars and move your 2 mobile repair units and all your heavy machine-gun units here and take out the scav's



Step 6: once the scav's are down, set your units to hold fire, and destroy the scav base, under no circumstance should you attack the new paradigm base yet we don't want to attack this till are mortars arrive and we can set up an ambush for the new paradigm units.



Step 7: move here and hold position till all your mortars arrive



Step 8: set your mortars and scanner to hold fire attach your mortars to the scanner and move the scanner here, and continue to wait for the rest of your mortars



Step 9: when your mortar arrive set the scanner to fire at will



at this point it will trigger the new paradigm base you will get the cut sequence and the new paradigm will come and attack you, however they are about to get flattened because they are walking into my trap.



Step 10: once the new paradigm units are dealt with take out the base, use the mortars to knock off the turrets and use the heavy machine gunners to take out there units.



at this point the computer is more or less finished and its just a case of mopping up and doing your research, easy enough.

best advice i can give is never let your units get killed the longer they live the higher rank they become and the more powerful they are because with each rank your units become tougher and can deal more damage, so if you want to get anywhere particularly when playing on the harder difficulties never let your units get killed even if then means you need to runaway and repair before pressing the attack again, also make use of the retreat on medium or heavy damage states these will causer your units to retreat to your LZ when the specified damage threshold is met and if you have a repair bay which you gain access to at the end of alpha 5 the retreat on X damage states will make your units retreat to the nearest repair bay instead of your LZ.

also make use of commanders when you gain access to them on alpha 6 since they confer additional bonuses that make the attached units even stronger, and the best bit is that units that are set to retreat when damage will return to there assigned commander after going to get repaired which helps a bunch on the later levels.

[Bethrezen]

Reduced factory group down to 4, put the artifact in the factory, and scavengers use two MG-damage upgrades. Seems to be just about perfect with this setup.

just had another go at alpha 3 and i have to say i agree i think that just is about spot on for difficulty and I don't reckon that we are going to get much closer then that.

It will be interesting to see how alpha 4 turns out with the scav's having 2 of there damage upgrades for there machine-guns hopefully it should be ok given that they have only 2 factories, although i can see things perhaps getting a little tricky when you collect the half tracks artefact due to the way the computer swarms you to try and stop you escaping with the artefacts, that could potentially be troublesome to handle but hopefully it should be ok.