Ah... good times eh? It was impressive, seeing a mass of units with near infinite reinforcements at all times.
Indeed, if that was a skirmish game you didn’t have to worry about time limits, and you where able to build factories instead of having to fly troops in that could in fact be a pretty fun challenge.
in a single player person vs. computer game what does it matter? If someone's prepared to spend ages waiting for the power to tick up for no real benefit (all they'll achieve is overkill, and - I've just learnt about this - with power bonuses for finishing early, nothing they couldn't achieve by just finishing anyway) why not let them do it?
It's one those balance things, because if you end up with absurd levels of power then that means that you end up being able to do things that where never intended which tends to brake the game, plus with the whole bonus power thing doing so is now unnecessary,
See comments above, plus, in this case, I think the change has introduced a new problem. I, personally, had no challenge with the shorter timer but as mentioned I've played this level several times. As one of the early levels (presumably) intended to ease new players into the game it seems too short now.
Ok let me see if I can explain this in a way you can understand, one of the victory conditions for completing alpha 03 is to build a power generator, if you try to end alpha 03 without building a power generator then you get the vid sequence telling you that you need to build the power generator and you get the 15 minute timer, that timer isn’t the timer to complete alpha 04 it’s the timer to build a power generator, once you build the power generator alpha 03 ends and alpha 4 begins as normal.
I know its weird design and I have been caught out by that one as well, having said that even if all your builders where over the other side of the map its not going to take them 15 minutes to drive back to where your power stations are located and build a power generator.
really that section of the game needs to be redesigned, and instead of getting the end mission screen for alpha 03 and then getting a 15 minute window to build the power generator what should probably happen is that alpha 03 simply refuses to end you get the vid telling you that you need to build the generator and then the timer for alpha 03 continues to ticking, that i think would make more sense since building a power generator is one of the stated objectives for alpha 3 as seen in the mission briefing video at the start of alpha 03.
I've reproduced it on another playthrough - see attached. I think the issue is the Scav component of the central plateau base is not being cleared correctly.
You do realise that when you are posting saves you don’t need to post your whole save folder that just makes it difficult to know which save actually contains the error that you are describing.
If you have an issue only post the save that contains the issue.
I agree that sounds logical, but how was it in the original game? The reason I raised it is because it seemed a deviation from what I understood it to be.
To be honest I'm not really sure it's been a long time since I played the original there is a copy of the original game that someone compiled from the original source posted here on the forum somewhere but can't remember where, I did try to find it but wasn’t able to.
I agree that's an issue but removing the structure check altogether doesn't seem like the right fix to me. Shouldn't the check "simply" be expanded to include both the home and away maps?
Well if you read my comments with regards to the cyborg factory you will see I make that very point my self that really what is needed is a smarter check one that checks the home map for the required structure such that if the required structure doesn't exist on the home map it wont let you access the research but if the required structure is present then you will be able to access the associated research regardless of whither you are on the home map or not.
Also, in the original, it's a check on the presence of a cyborg factory, not a tank factory.
I know but those comments where aimed specifically at the python body and composite ally stuff on alpha 08, and the requirement to have build the tank factory.
However the same situation also applies to the cyborg factory and the associated research.
In case it's not already clear let me clarify.
On alpha 08 you collect the composite ally artefact but it wont let you research composite alloy mk2 and the python body on alpha 08 because those research projects require the presence of the tank factory due to the required structure check and since alpha 08 is an away mission and you cant build a tank factories on away missions then you are incorrectly prevented for accessing the associated research even though technically you meet the require structure requirement because you have already built the tank factory, hence why I recon that check is faulty.
The same situation applies to the cyborg factory and its associated research if you build a cyborg factory then take off for an away mission and then try to do cyborg research you wont be able to even though you should because you have built the cyborg factory.
The reason for this issue in both cases is the required structure check which only checks the current away map instead of your home map for the presence of the required structure.
So the quick and dirty solution is to remove the required structure check this solves the problem of not being able to do the associated research on an away mission however it also has some unintended sides effects in that you can do the cyborg research even if you haven't built a cyborg factory which is clearly not correct, hence my comments about what is probably need is a smarter required structure check.
Now given that you would be able to build a cyborg factory and do the research on alpha 10 anyway getting it a little earlier on alpha 09 is a minor detail in the grand scheme of things, really what is need is for this to be addressed properly, as I already alluded to in my previous comments, having said that doing so may or may not be difficult, time consuming, complicated and if it's going to prove to be to difficult, time consuming and complicated to address then maybe its better to just leave things as they are now because there are more important issues that need to be addressed right now
Now from a purely purist perspective like you I don’t think the campaign should be changed in radical ways I don’t not however have a problem with ironing out issues caused by poorly though out design choices, so long as those changes are not detrimental to the game as a whole, and I can't say I've seen anything in any of the changes that I would consider to be detrimental.
Hmm. Maybe I don't understand the current victory conditions are now and am trying to do too much. What were they before and are they now?
That said, "challenging" is a relative term. I don't have any issue completing this level and usually do so in plenty of time (not < 2mins though!). I was more thinking in terms of how new players would find it.
The previous victory conditions was to recover the artefact and return to your LZ which meant that this mission could be done in under 2 minutes because all you would have to do is drive down in to the canyon where the artefact is located blow up 4 or 5 new paradigm units and then return to your landing zone with the artefact and the mission would end which is way way way to easy even on insane.
So the victory condition was changed now I believe you have to collect the artefact and destroy all the enemy units although Berserk Cyborg would need to confirm that one, doing this ensures that you can't just finish the mission in under 2 minutes
Yeah, I since worked that out. I didn't actually know there was a bonus oil feature until I read your post. There hasn't always been. Do you know when it was introduced?
Not sure when it was introduced some where in the 3x branch I think I do know that it’s a fairly recent thing.
It certainly makes life easier not having to actually wait out the timers though. I usually complete most levels with ridiculous amounts of time to spare (well, on normal, anyway).
Indeed and if I have understood the stated purpose that was precisely the point.
Although clearly there are still some adjustments needed the problem though as I already alluded to in my comments regarding this is that getting this right is not a simple thing because at some point players are going to end up with to much resources and there isn’t really anything you can do about it without completely changing the way the whole resources system in warzone, you can try and you can make improvements sure but I don’t think you will ever really make the issue go away not while the current resource system remains in place.
Now if you look at say Dawn of War they have a similar resource system and there solution is to have resource points decay over a period of time thus delivering less resources the problem there though is that something like this probably wouldn’t work very well in Warzone due to the fact that warzone is a fundamentally different game.
I'm aware it's a longstanding one. I've seen some of your earlier comments on the subject too. I'm just raising it in the hope that if I can include specific examples with corresponding save games if anyone's looking into it they'll have some material to work with. I also felt it had gotten worse of late. Do you know if any changes have been made to the pathfinding recently and/or since 3.2.3?
Not so far as I'm aware but there is a lot of stuff that goes on in the back ground that you will never hear about on the forum you can however check the various commits
https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... its/master which gives a more detailed list of various changes that are being made at any given time
This thread is more about helping get the campaign converted to JavaScript and to find and fix issues within the campaign that result from that conversion Alpha is for the most part pretty stable now and I think the vast majority of bugs have already been fixed save for a couple of the more obscure ones or ones like pathing that are simply difficult to address.
Beta and Gamma however are a different story while those have already been converted they haven't been extensively tested yet because my self and Alfred have been concentrating are efforts on Alpha I figured the most sensible approach is to fix one campaign at a time, one mission at a time if you jump around to much then that's how issues get missed and mistake get made.
Challenging level. I imagine it's tricky on insane level.
