Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

[alfred007]

With the research upgrade, Berserk Cyborg made for the Scavengers, their Twin and Heavy Machine Guns still have the ROF of the Machine Gun. I created new weapons for the Scavengers in weapons.json giving them the Twin Machinegun and the Heavy Machinegun with the values of the Projects weapons. I also updated templates.js and the scripts for Alpha 01 - 05 so that the Scavenger factories in Alpha 02 produces Scavengers with the Twin Machine Gun and in Alpha 04 and 05 Scavengers with the Heavy Machine Gun. I don't know how to modify the already on the map existing Scavengers, so I have to leave that to Berserk Cyborg. I added the updated files.

If we want to make the Scavengers in the levels from Alpha 06 on still a relevant threat, we could give them one ROF and damage upgrade more than the project has. And maybe we can give the Scavengers the medium cannon in the later levels.

I kinda of figured that might be the case, I see what Berserk Cyborg was saying on alpha 2 where the upgrade seemed a little much it's far from impossible by any means but it is pretty brutal so yeah I think I'd agree its probably a little much even for insane.

I'll give your mod a go with the adjusted stats and see what its like.

Please wait until Berserk Cyborg checked my changes and implemented them into a new camBalance Mod.

[Berserk Cyborg]

Please wait until Berserk Cyborg checked my changes and implemented them into a new camBalance Mod.

All fine except for a few invalid rocket scavenger templates in Alpha 5. Those New Paradigm medium-cannon units bring some pain, but are not too big of an issue if you got about 18 mortars attached to an experienced sensor like I had done. So far I am unable to get Flame to compile a map with customized units... they always disappear when I go to test the map. I could still replace already built units, if wanted.

camBalance.wz

Defense orders seem ok? Did not see anything odd while doing a test run.

[Bethrezen]

All fine except for a few invalid rocket scavenger templates in Alpha 5. Those New Paradigm medium-cannon units bring some pain, but are not too big of an issue if you got about 18 mortars attached to an experienced sensor like I had done. So far I am unable to get Flame to compile a map with customized units... they always disappear when I go to test the map. I could still replace already built units, if wanted.

Alpha 01
Ok so just had a go at alpha 01 with those changes and I have a question what did you set the scav's machine-guns at for alpha 1

The default values of

Range - 6.0
Damage - 10
Rate of fire - 120

Or

Range - 6.0
Damage - 12
Rate of fire - 150

Which is what the player machine-guns have, at the end of alpha 01.

if it was the default values then it might be worth increasing them to same as what the players machine-guns have at the end of alpha 01.

Range - 6.0
Damage - 12
Rate of fire - 150

and we can see how that is for difficulty, because i think the default values are probably a little low.

Alpha 02
I also have the same question for the scav's twin machine-guns on alpha 2, did you set there values to the default values of

Range - 6.0
Damage - 14
Rate of fire - 125

Of did you set them to

Range - 6.0
Damage - 17
Rate of fire - 125

Which is what twin machineguns start at for the player after 1 damage upgrade or did you set the values to

Range - 6.0
Damage - 20
Rate of fire - 125

Which is what the players twin machine-guns have at the end of alpha 2 after you research the 2nd damage upgrade.

If it was the default values then it might be worth increasing the damage from 14 to 17, which is what the player twin machine-guns have after getting the first damage upgrade, and then we can see how that is and if it's still a little weak then we can try turning the damage up to 20 which would be equivalent to what the player has at the end of alpha 2 after getting the second damage upgrade.

With regard to alpha 03 I note that they are still using, standard machineguns is this intentional ?

As far as replacing the units the scav's have already built on alpha 2 goes I'd be inclined to just leave them it's more realistic that way anyway because what ever enemy you face off against its unlikely that all of there units would be newly built state of the art machines it's much more likely that you would face a combination of new and old.

[alfred007]

The default values are the values the player have at the beginning of Alpha 01 and Alpha 02. I think the "only" thing we have to do is giving the scavengers the weapon upgrades the player receive in the level by giving them a constant research in the script. Thereby the values of the Scavengers weapons will be even with the values of the player at the end of the level. But I don't know how to do this, so we have to leave that for Berserk Cyborg.

Alpha 03 is still a little problem. As Berserk Cyborg said, he is so far not able to replace the already on the map existing Scavengers. With the result, that the Scavengers in Alpha 03 are still using standard machine guns.

[alfred007]

I played around with the code a bit and copied the way the Scavengers receive constant research upgrades in the later levels into Alpha 01 and 02. Now in Alpha 01 they have the MG upgrades the player gets during Alpha 01 and in Alpha 02 another damage upgrade like the player. I also decreased the factory throttles in Alpha 01 a little bit. In base 2 to 16 from 18, in base 3 to 14 from 16 and in base 4 to 12 from 13. I made a test playing the game with normal difficulty in a way I would play the game for the first time (if this is possible with all the experience I have). The level is still easy to win. I added the Mod with these changes I made.

[Bethrezen]

The default values are the values the player have at the beginning of Alpha 01 and Alpha 02. I think the "only" thing we have to do is giving the scavengers the weapon upgrades the player receive in the level by giving them a constant research in the script. Thereby the values of the Scavengers weapons will be even with the values of the player at the end of the level. But I don't know how to do this, so we have to leave that for Berserk Cyborg.

Ah kinda figured the scav units where only using the default values, because I noticed that there units seemed some what less powerful, don't get me wrong alpha 2 was interesting facing off against the scav's with twin MGs and when you get ganged up on by more than 1 squad at a time there where still a few hairy moments, even when using 4 mobile repair units, normally I'd only use 2 but flamers are somewhat more fragile so need extra support to stop you loosing units.

But overall the scav machine-guns only using the default values feels a bit to low at least for insane.

[edit]
Just gave that mod a quick whirl and i have to question whether or not the research bonuses are actually being applied because I can't say I noticed a difference ?!?

[Berserk Cyborg]

I don't think two machine-gun damage upgrades is a good idea as it makes getting into that base with the flamer upgrades near impossible without devastating unit loss. One is perfect.

Similar to the propulsion upgrader for manufactured/reinforcement units, which is so far disabled, a template upgrader is rather simple. For example, open up the debug menu in Alpha 1 and paste the below function call into the cam1a script context, click run, and watch as all of player 7's scavenger units become trikes. Also, because of the rotation of some on map units, some units might overlap onto the same exact coordinate.

Code: Select all

camUpgradeOnMapTemplates({ body: "B1BaBaPerson01", propulsion: "BaBaLegs", weapon: "BabaMG" }, { body: "B4body-sml-trike01", propulsion: "BaBaProp", weapon: "BabaTrikeMG" }, 7);

Only thing is the scripter needs to be careful as to not replace a droid that has an object label assigned to it (like the Beta 4 commander). Perhaps I should add the ability to ignore a set of object IDs, in that case. So I guess we can modify the Alpha 3 units next.

camBalance.wz

Fixed the scavenger research on Alpha 1.

[Bethrezen]

I don't think two machine-gun damage upgrades is a good idea as it makes getting into that base with the flamer upgrades near impossible without devastating unit loss. One is perfect.

This for alpha 1 or 2 you talking about?

If ya talking about alpha 2 then that’s why I suggested just starting with 1 damage upgrade for there twin MGs first to see how that is because obviously you have to account for the scav's grater numbers and unlimited production, and with the faster production on insane I agree that 2 damage upgrades for the scav's twin machine-guns could be a bit much, but obviously you wont know that till ya try it out, but of course this is the benefit of the step by step approach you can tweak things with grate precision until you get exactly the experience you are looking for although that is a bit more labour intensive.

[Berserk Cyborg]

This for alpha 1 or 2 you talking about?

If ya talking about alpha 2 then that’s why I suggested just starting with 1 damage upgrade for there twin MGs first to see how that is because obviously you have to account for the scav's grater numbers and unlimited production, and with the faster production on insane I agree that 2 damage upgrades for the scav's twin machine-guns could be a bit much, but obviously you wont know that till ya try it out, but of course this is the benefit of the step by step approach you can tweak things with grate precision until you get exactly the experience you are looking for although that is a bit more labour intensive.

Alpha 2. I already tried it with two damage upgrades and found it too brutal for only the second mission in the game. Which is why I set it to only research one damage upgrade for the scavengers on Alpha 2.

[Bethrezen]

Fixed the scavenger research on Alpha 1.

Ok so just given alpha 01 a whirl and I have to say ouch you definitely notice the effect of them couple of upgrades, particularly on there MG towers wow they are kinda nasty now, but difficulty wise I recon that this is probably just about perfect for insane.

Any harder and I think that even experience players might struggle to complete it with out taking massive casualties.

I do have one question though what is the damage value of the scav MG towers because they seem more powerful then there buggies / trikes.

Alpha 2. I already tried it with two damage upgrades and found it too brutal for only the second mission in the game. Which is why I set it to only research one damage upgrade for the scavengers on Alpha 2.

ahh, that's what I though.

[alfred007]

I do have one question though what is the damage value of the scav MG towers because they seem more powerful then there buggies / trikes.

Yes, the towers have a base damage of 16 and the same firePause as the Machine Gun.

I will give the latest camBalance Mod a go and tell you then what I think.

[Bethrezen]

Ok so just given Alpha 02 a go and difficulty wise I think its just about spot on for insane, the one minor issue I have is that the turrets are delivering damage a bit to quickly, now on alpha 1 this isn't to much of a problem.

On alpha 02 however it is a problem because its taking me to long to brake through there defences particularly at the start of the level due to the combination of rapid spawn of there units plus the faster rate at which there turrets are doing damage so much so that I'm running out of time, to put that in to perspective I'm currently at about 15 mins left on the clock and I'm just starting to try and get past the defences at the last base, the one with the turbine for the power plant, normally by this point i would have already wiped out the defences at the last base and would have a small detachments of units in guard and I'd be organising me self ready for alpha 03.

so yeah might be an idea to slightly reduce the damage of there MG towers, maybe take there damage from 16 to 14, to help speed up the process of braking through there defences slightly, but otherwise I think the level is fine.

[alfred007]

I finished testing Alpha 01 and 02 and I agree with Bethrezen that the base damage of the MG Towers should be reduced a bit. Even that both levels are still playable it's a little bit much for the first two levels. Everything else looks fine. I think as soon as you were able to replace the Scavengers in Alpha 03 we can move on.

[Berserk Cyborg]

Reduced scavenger tower MG damage down to 14 and replaced Alpha 3 scavengers with the twin-mg variants.

camBalance.wz

[alfred007]

Nasty as I am I took the camBalance Mod and made Alpha 03 more difficult. I replaced the Scavengers with the Heavy Machine Gun variants and gave the Scavengers the second damage upgrade. This is the same we did in Alpha 02 by giving the Scavengers the upgrades the player gets in this level.
I love all the new towers and buildings in Alpha 03. Even with my modified mod Alpha 03 is still playable but I think we should give the players a little bit more time. For new players, even the Twin Machine Gun Scavengers would be a problem in 15 minutes. So I suggest setting the timer to 25 minutes with camChangeOnDiff. This gives you with insane difficulty 16:40 minutes. And then you can use the Heavy Machine Gun Scavengers and the second damage upgrade in this level.
I added the Mod with my changes except for the time change. Also added are the logs for Alpha 01-03 from my tests. In Alpha 03 we have again the TriggerEventSeen and MapTile infos in the log file.
In Alpha 04 we should replace the existing Scavengers with the Heavy Machine Gun variants and give them the third damage upgrade like the player has.

Edit: I replaced the Scavengers in Alpha 02 with the Twin Machine Gun variants. Changed file for checking is added.