Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 30 Aug 2017, 18:30

I have opted to increase the Alpha 9 timer to 48 minutes (same with hard difficulty) and delay the New Paradigm factory activation some more. Factory throttles are now much more reasonable for the New Paradigm and reflect the average time of ~1-2 minutes on normal difficulty.

As for Alpha 12, I delayed the initial attack near the LZ and made the factories that produce tougher units have slower production times. So it should be somewhat easier to manage on insane difficulty


I take it you haven't pushed those changes yet ? i only ask because i updated to the master for 30-Aug-2017 copied my end of mission save for alpha 8 loaded that up finished the level and then started up alpha 09 but it's still showing 40 minutes
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 30 Aug 2017, 21:15

Bethrezen wrote:
I have opted to increase the Alpha 9 timer to 48 minutes (same with hard difficulty) and delay the New Paradigm factory activation some more. Factory throttles are now much more reasonable for the New Paradigm and reflect the average time of ~1-2 minutes on normal difficulty.

As for Alpha 12, I delayed the initial attack near the LZ and made the factories that produce tougher units have slower production times. So it should be somewhat easier to manage on insane difficulty


I take it you haven't pushed those changes yet ? i only ask because i updated to the master for 30-Aug-2017 copied my end of mission save for alpha 8 loaded that up finished the level and then started up alpha 09 but it's still showing 40 minutes


Did you updated to master 4181dc0? It's pushed today at 16:49. There is a second master from the night, where these changes are not implemented. With master 4181dc0 you get the announced 48 minutes.

I also tried to reproduce the saveload bug from Bethrezen with alpha 10. With my commanders everything worked fine. But I think there is one difference, because if I understood Bethrezen right he produced his units at the beginning of alpha 9 before he starts the transport. I recycled my units at the end of alpha 9 and produced them new at the rally points of my factories. So the problem is maybe with "old" commanders.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 31 Aug 2017, 14:03

Did you updated to master 4181dc0? It's pushed today at 16:49. There is a second master from the night, where these changes are not implemented. With master 4181dc0 you get the announced 48 minutes.


looks like i have the previous one just checked http://buildbot.wz2100.net/files/ and its been updated again.

I also tried to reproduce the saveload bug from Bethrezen with alpha 10. With my commanders everything worked fine. But I think there is one difference, because if I understood Bethrezen right he produced his units at the beginning of alpha 9 before he starts the transport. I recycled my units at the end of alpha 9 and produced them new at the rally points of my factories. So the problem is maybe with "old" commanders.


I think you might be right about that one because i created commander 1 and 2 before i took off to do alpha 09 commander 3 was created at the end of alpha 09 after I recycled my bombards and scanner, but of course i brought commander 2 along with me when i took off so only commander 1 stayed behind which may be why this only seems to happen to commander 1.

I have to say this is a bit of an odd one i wonder why it only seems to affect commanders crated before you take of and not commanders produced after you take off ? and why only upon a reload of alpha 10 and not when playing through from alpha 09 strange ?!?!

[edit]

@pastdue
Did you ever figure out what got broken and why I can't change resolution from within the game ? I only ask because I can manual alter the config file to make the game run at 800x600 and it works fine so it seems that it's simply the menu that is broken.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby pastdue » 31 Aug 2017, 19:05

Bethrezen wrote:@pastdue
Did you ever figure out what got broken and why I can't change resolution from within the game ? I only ask because I can manual alter the config file to make the game run at 800x600 and it works fine so it seems that it's simply the menu that is broken.


Yep - the output from that log helped narrow it down nicely. Should have a patch relatively soon, when I have a moment to finish it up.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 31 Aug 2017, 21:59

Berserk Cyborg wrote:When master d67b34e is available the fifth transporter should never arrive at Beta base and you will hear about it being under attack.


I updated to master 4181dc0, started new from the end of alpha campaign and did beta 1. But the change didn't work. I could bring in 6 transports and even the 7th get not attacked.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 01 Sep 2017, 00:22

Alpha 11

Seems like the loss condition on this is a little hinky if you look at how this level is supposed to go in the original 1.10 version the player would only loose when the tank carrying the artefact gets to the drop zone gets onboard the transport and leaves the area however in the current version the mission is ending when the escorts board the transport which is incorrect since they don't actually have the artefact.

In addition in the original 1.10 version the tank carrying the artefact and the escorts would stay together however in the current version the escorts go speeding off ahead of the tank carrying the artefact leaving it unprotected which is also incorrect in addition due to the fact that the escorts go speeding off ahead, the tank carrying the artefact ends up going the wrong way, which should in theory brake the loss condition as the tank carrying the artefact can't actually get to the drop zone if it goes up the front ramp because it's blocked by tank traps.

now i know i have reported this before and i know we disagree on this one and i know you don't think its currently feasible to have the escorts and tank carrying the artefact stay together because then the convoy would move to slow and that would make things to easy, however this is how this level is supposed to go.

So with that in mind let me propose a compromise, change the tank carrying the artefact from having tracks to having half tracks instead, that way the tank carrying the artefact could keep up with the escorts and the escorts could stay with the tank carrying the artefact to protect it, it would also mean that the tank carrying the artefact would go the correct way and the loss condition would then work correctly.

now i know on 1 level that is going to make things slightly easier as the tank carrying the artefact would be easier to kill, however that would be balanced out by the fact that the tank carrying the artefact would also be harder to catch since its able to move faster, and to make things a little tougher when the player engages the convoy you could have the escorts stop to fight the player while the tank carrying the artefact doesn't and instead continues on its way to the drop zone, again if you look at the original 1.10 version this is what would normally happen.

If I'm remembering my original copy on the PlayStation correctly that is.

[edit]

Ok just checking the logs and noticed a couple of errors they seem to be related to when I've destroyed the computers factories probably nothing to worry about but it does suggest that something isn't quiet right because blowing up NPC factories should be giving me errors.

Code: Select all
--- Starting log [C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Desktop\Warzone 2100_portable-master\Warzone 2100 master\logs\WZlog-0831_190115.txt]---
error   |07:01:37: [js_hackRemoveMessage:4044] cannot find message - C1-4_BASE3
info    |08:56:12: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |08:56:12: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
info    |08:56:12: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |08:56:12: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
error   |08:56:42: [recvStructureInfo:349] Could not find structure 223 to change production for
error   |08:56:42: [recvStructureInfo:349] Could not find structure 280 to change production for
error   |08:56:42: [recvStructureInfo:349] Could not find structure 279 to change production for
info    |08:58:46: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |08:58:46: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
info    |08:58:46: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |08:58:46: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
error   |09:00:51: [recvStructureInfo:349] Could not find structure 280 to change production for
info    |09:55:47: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |09:55:47: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: 'N/A'
info    |09:55:47: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |09:55:47: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: 'N/A'
info    |10:14:44: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |10:14:44: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
info    |10:14:44: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |10:14:44: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
info    |10:16:56: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |10:16:56: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
info    |10:16:56: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Scripts not initialized yet
info    |10:16:56: [triggerEventSeen:1287] Assert in Warzone: qtscript.cpp:1287 (scriptsReady), last script event: '<none>'
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 01 Sep 2017, 00:41

Bethrezen wrote:So with that in mind let me propose a compromise, change the tank carrying the artefact from having tracks to having half tracks instead, that way the tank carrying the artefact could keep up with the escorts and the escorts could stay with the tank carrying the artefact to protect it, it would also mean that the tank carrying the artefact would go the correct way and the loss condition would then work correctly.
Sounds good to me.

Beta transporter limit should be fixed in master 3e81700. I also prevent it from accepting more transports on savegame load when the limit is reached.

Edit:
I will make them regroup and start moving near the beginning of the mission instead. It seems the regrouping code is funky though because sometimes units get stuck and it stalls the whole group forever. Regrouping now done on master 449b08c.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 01 Sep 2017, 14:17

Ok so updated to warzone2100-master-20170901-070252-a46b9dd.exe (01-Sep-2017)

Copied my save for the end of alpha 10 across reloaded and i then stated alpha 11, I put on the deity cheat so that i could watch what was going on and I deliberately let the convey escape.

Now while things certainly seem to work more like expected, the convoy is staying together and they are all going round the back as they should, i still think this level needs a little work, to that end i have a couple of observations.

Firstly, I'm not sure what the original intention was with this level but for insane difficulty at least something doesn't feel quiet right about the current set up so i think for insane either the convoy needs to move faster or the convoy needs to be harder to take down and/or both.

Therefore I'm of the opinion that all units in the convey should use the same locomotion so that they move at the same pace, so either the escorts need to user tracks or the artefact carrier needs to use half tracks because the combination of the 2 doesn't seem to work so well.

I'm also of the opinion that the convoy could perhaps do with having a couple of extra guards on insane because 2 light body units and 2 medium body units vs 8 heavy body units isn't really a fair match up, even if those units are only heavy machine gunners which is typically what i use on this level as 90% of the enemy units on this level are made up of scav's.

This is especially true since the new paradigm don't have any factories on this level, and the scav's are no match for the player at this point, more over if the player is really quick then this miss match is even more unfair because it's 2 light body units and 2 medium body units vs 18 heavy body units.

Second the game over screen is still triggering a bit to soon from what i observe the transport arrives the escorts get on board and the game over screen then triggers immediately, so obviously there is still something a little hinky going on there because from what i can remember the game over screen would only trigger once the convoy has boarded the transport and the transport has left the map.

Third i notice that once i pick up the artefact the remaining enemy units on this level don't come after me in an attempt to stop me from escaping with the artefact, now from what i gather this is because you changed the victory condition.

now if i recall correctly the current victory condition is to collect the artefact and kill the remaining enemy units before you get the message to return to your LZ so what i would perhaps do is leave the victory condition as is but still have the remaining enemy units on the level come and attack you after you collect the artefact, that combined with the convoy beginning to move upon landing and being made faster or harder to take down and/or both should help to make this level a bit more challenging on insane.

fourth i note that instead of trying to escape and leaving the escorts to stop me the tank carrying the artefact tries to fight me when i engage the convoy so that should probably be addressed as well.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 01 Sep 2017, 19:00

Alpha 12

So once again I'm having a go at this and once again I'm having no end of problems.

Firstly due to computers insentience attacks, i can't get anything done as fast as i destroy 1 group of units i get attacked from the other direction by another its like being piggy in the middle which needles to say is incredibly frustrating, and those hover lancers are really getting on my nerves because they're trashing my units and half the time i can't even fire back, and even if i get a couple of shots off half the time i can't actually kill them because they just run away, and even if you do kill them it isn't long before the compute just builds more, and because there is so little room to manoeuvre my units are being continually picked off because they can't get to the repair bays.

Personally I'm of the opinion that collisions need to be turned off for units that are trying to retreat for repairs so that they can pass through your other units.

Anyway as a consequence of having to constantly deal with this manually it's taking me somewhere in the region of 30 to 40 minuets to even get out of my drop zone and at that rate there is absolutely no way in hell that I'm ever going to have enough time to complete this.

Unfortunately the changes you made to this don't seem to have made much if any difference at all because I'm still finding this so be an uphill struggle.

To be honest its hard to think of a level i find more frustrating then this one.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 01 Sep 2017, 22:08

Don't know what you are doing, but it should not take 40 minutes just to leave the drop zone area.
I can destroy the whole base around the hover artifact in ~15 minutes without even rushing.

What I think made a big difference is adding some beefy heavy cannon-python-tracks to my lancer group and made them tank the lancer hits. Also built a few bombard half-tracks and a sensor to take care of the artifact base. Then I use them to help the tracked units take on cyborgs. From there I controlled two separate scorpion bombard hover groups attached to a sensor and attacked the west and east side simultaneously. Again, I took out the LZ and the cyborg factory closest to it before starting to destroy defenses on the east side. Eventually the artillery hovers on the west can smash through the bunkers and take out the other three factories in the main base area. The base with the HQ is easy to take down from there.

Alternatively, you can also exploit a map design flaw on the west side. Its mostly bunkers and is probably the one time bunker buster hovers are more useful than ever in the campaign.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 02 Sep 2017, 00:24

Berserk Cyborg wrote:Beta transporter limit should be fixed in master 3e81700. I also prevent it from accepting more transports on savegame load when the limit is reached


Yes is fixed. One minor thing I noticed is, that the very first of my transporters is damaged. The followings not.

In commit a46b9dd in the file for level cam2-c you set in line 322 the throttle time to 700,000. I think your intention was to set it to 70,000. It's one "0" too much.

wz2100-20170901_195411-CAM_2A.jpg


Bethrezen wrote:Alpha 12

So once again I'm having a go at this and once again I'm having no end of problems.


As well known I'm no friend of adding more time to the levels. What we maybe could do here is to enable the NP factories a little bit later(3-5 minutes?) and increase the throttle time for the factories a bit. With that you have more time before the first wave of produced units attacks you and the time gap between the attacks increase. These smooth changes could maybe help.

On the picture below you can see what I do to hold the NP hover units on distance. I build some lancer hardpoints and walls protected by trucks and place a sensor with bombards behind the walls. And with that I can handle all attacks during researching the hover artifact and then producing a squad of hover lancers with a hover commander. And as soon as these troops are in I fight the NP units with the hover squad and destroy the hover base east of the hill with my bombards.

wz2100-20170902_000523-SUB_1_D.jpg
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 02 Sep 2017, 00:54

Fixed the first transport being damaged, that factory throttle in 2-c, and increased the factory throttles a little bit for Alpha 12.

For Alpha 12 the factories are enabled by an area trigger and its always been like that. One near the tank traps/hover artifact that activates the four main base factories. And another slightly farther up near the part where all those lancer towers are on the islands which activates the LZ and the two factories next to the HQ.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 02 Sep 2017, 01:32

As well known I'm no friend of adding more time to the levels. What we maybe could do here is to enable the NP factories a little bit later (3-5 minutes?) and increase the throttle time for the factories a bit.


Increase the throttle time for the factories you can't be serious units already produce way to fast so much so that I'm under near constant attack if its not land units attacking me its hover units and that is a massive part of my problem on this level I'm spending so much time just trying defend my self that I can't get anything done because I can't get more than10 seconds quiet before I have to stop what I'm doing to deal with yet another attack.

Not to put to fine a point on things but this level as it is right now is a colossal pain in the backside and about the only way I have been able to make any progress at all to cheat.

Even when I get units converted to hover propulsion there dam lancers rip me to shreds because both hover lancers and hover bombards are lightly armour and can't take more than about 2 or 3 hits before they go down, trouble is using anything else is a waste of time because they don't inflict damage fast enough.

Doubling up on units doesn't work because that just exacerbates the my inability to manoeuvre properly due to the way the map is designed, going hover mode doesn’t work either, because hover craft are to weak, I even tried converting all 3 of my squads to cyborgs to see if I could make any progress that way since manoeuvrability isn’t a problem with cyborgs but that failed spectacularly as well because they are to lightly armoured and realistically to be remotely useful for anything other that a suicide run cyborgs need double there current armour

I mean So far I have not been able to find a tactic that works basically every tactic I have tried has failed miserable and I either run out of time or get crushed.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Bethrezen » 03 Sep 2017, 18:56

Ok so just had another go at alpha 12 and once again I was not able to complete it without cheating and freezing the timer after I froze the timer I got my stop watch out so that I could see roughly how long over the time limit it would take me to finished the level and I was coming in at around 30 minutes over the limit, which is about right because before you started converting the campaign to java script it used to take me the entire 2 hours to do this level.

However keep in mind, 30 minutes over limit is when I don’t have to deal with the extra units that are being flown in on the transports if had to deal with them to then I would very likely be even further over the limit.

So realistically I don’t see how this is anywhere close to possible in 1 hours 20 minuets if it was taking me the full 2 hours before, when I wasn’t facing 10 times the resistance and units that are a hell of a lot tougher and stronger, I mean props to alfred007 for completing it in 1:20 but despite my best efforts I can't get anywhere even remotely close to matching that.

As far as I'm concerned there attacks are simply coming to quickly and there needs to be more of a gap in between waves, unfortunately at the moment there isn’t any where close to a sufficient gap in-between waves and as a consequence instead of doing what I should be doing I'm spending all my time just trying to fight off there units, or repairing the damage that there units are inflicting.

Oh and one other thing lest you think I'm exaggerating when I say it's taking me something in the region of 30 to 40 minutes to get out my drop zone here is a save I made at 50 minutes and as you will see I've managed to accomplish very little, I've only gotten as far as recovering the artefact and converting my first 2 squads to hover propulsion, and the reason I haven't made more progress is there incessant attacks.

Now while I'm sure there are probably things I could do to shave off a few minutes here of there like using alfred007 trick of sending a suicide squad to collect the artefact, realistically with me being so far over the time limit all the time saving tricks in the world aren't going to make the slightest difference.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 03 Sep 2017, 20:09

Updated to master 6ea9820
Testing beta 2.
Due to the fact that there are no Collective factories the level is not much tougher than in the old hard difficulty and I could make the level in time. But again the path finding error occurs. I reloaded several times saved games from different times left on the timer and it seems, that this error occurs as soon as you attack the enemy base south east. I added the logs and one of my saved games. If you want I can upload some more saves from different times.

About the problem that Bethrezen have with alpha 12 it will be hard to find a good compromise, that the level stays not too tough and doesn't becomes too less tough for insane difficulty. I will take a look at the uploaded game from Bethrezen for getting an idea what we can do.
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