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Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 19:32
by NoQ
Against mg/rocket tank spam cannon player should be able to hold with pure cannons (he should no longer needs machineguns, as their meat shield function was reduced, and cannon hit points were improved), mixing borgs and tanks in good proportion. Moreover, cannon player should now be able to concentrate his fire on enemy machineguns first (as, again, they're no longer meat shielding rockets, and, moreover, they can't be covered by rockets, as they have shorter range), and then use a preserved backup force of cyborgs (5 cannon borgs or so) to efficiently finish off an unlimited amount of remaining rocket tanks (as rockets are terrible against borgs, that's almost a hard counter).

Did anybody try this plan?

Cause, yeah, we don't want to see pure cyborg games, but we shouldn't be allowing pure tanks work as well.
Hover = tank.
O_o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 19:34
by Rommel
crab_ wrote: I think rockets can be overpowered in certain cases. I think we can safely nerf rockets 5-10% DPS (reduce DPS of rockets).
I'm afraid if we nerf rockets then cannons can become overpowered.
Shouldn't rockets be more powerful because they are more expensive and take longer to research? If they are nerfed people will not even bother to use them because cannons will give the same effect + cheaper?

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 19:38
by NoQ
Shouldn't rockets be more powerful because they are more expensive and take longer to research? If they are nerfed people will not even bother to use them because cannons will give the same effect + cheaper?
No.
Both cannons and rockets exist on all game phases.
That's why on most phases of the game they should be equal, yet different in play style.

Only at very beginning of minipod phase minipods should be slightly stronger, because the player who teched for them was driven back by earlier cannon timing offense, and needs therefore to recover.

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 22:19
by crab_
NoQ wrote:Against mg/rocket tank spam cannon player should be able to hold with pure cannons
Cannons are weak against borgs, MG morgs and later lancer borgs can beat cannon player. Rockets + MG borgs are stronger than pure cannons
Cannon player are still have to use MG.

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 19 Nov 2013, 05:32
by vexed
vexed wrote: Will have to tweak the code for VTOLs on rearming pads to see what can be done, that didn't come up in testing. :stressed:
*edit After some testing, had 20 rearming pads, and had 30 VTOLs, and it was working as it should...the ones sitting on the rearming pads moved away to make room for the 10 more that needed rearming at a later point in time.
*edit2, Made 100 VTOLs and had them patrolling all around the map, didn't notice a issue with that either...
Got any more details ? :hmm:
After some more testing, it seems it just isn't going to work out the way we have hoped, and we are going to have to go back to the older code.
The main reason for this is we really need the formation code replacement, and more tweaks done to the avoidance routines. (In typical WZ fashion, you try to plug one hole, then more things spring a leak. :stressed: )
That means, that clustering of VTOL units will be back. :(

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 20 Nov 2013, 14:35
by legion_Lex
pls, add in v3.1.1 aliances - "locked teams, no shared research", he is in v.master, mode is very interesting, there are people that look forward to it. :3
I think we can safely nerf rockets 5-10% DPS (reduce DPS of rockets).
Agree, I ask only that cut minirockets in the beginning of the game.

And by the way, problem t3-turrets :!:
Nexus Link Turret - needs in a reduction in 3-4 times, reduction of time for the capture of an enemy unit (otherwise players prefer not to use)
EMP Mortal - add the damage bombard or higher and blow on the square (otherwise players prefer not to use)
EMP Cannon - add the damage, comparable with the average level of technologies (otherwise players prefer not to use)
AA Flac Cannon - increased damage in 1,3 - 1,5 times (otherwise players prefer Hurricane AA Turret)
Pepperpot - increased damage in 1,3 - 1,5 times (otherwise players prefer Incendiary Mortar)
Command Turret - add the damage, comparable with the average level of technologies (otherwise players prefer not to use)

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 20 Nov 2013, 17:33
by NoQ
against borgs
That's a totally different test, of course different adaptation would be necessary.

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 20 Nov 2013, 17:50
by legion_Lex
Lasers
Pre-requisites: NSRB Mk2->NSRB Mk1 (move up on tech tree, available earlier)
Lasers
Don't auto-upgrade to Pulse Laser
Cyb-Wpn-Laser (Cyb-Wpn-Laser)
Damage 70->90.
Lasers remained weak and outdated weapons on the battlefield.

And need to increase the damage neddle gun, he was very weak, when already exist a heavy cannon and twin assault cannon. Players ignore often his, use only neddle guner.

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 21 Nov 2013, 07:28
by Rommel
Bulldozer wrote:Since there isn't a Mac build, I thought I'd cook one up... here's an unofficial build for Mac OS X of 3.1.1 rc2. It was built on Snow Leopard (x86 10.6), and briefly tested on Mavericks (x86_64 10.9), so I expect it will work on just about everything in between. That said, I don't really have time to actively support it, so caveat emptor but enjoy: :)

http://eisbox.net/downloads/wz2100_3.1.1_rc2.zip
Works great, thanks!

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 21 Nov 2013, 08:59
by crab_
legion_Lex wrote: Nexus Link Turret - needs in a reduction in 3-4 times, reduction of time for the capture of an enemy unit (otherwise players prefer not to use)
EMP Mortal - add the damage bombard or higher and blow on the square (otherwise players prefer not to use)
EMP Cannon - add the damage, comparable with the average level of technologies (otherwise players prefer not to use)
AA Flac Cannon - increased damage in 1,3 - 1,5 times (otherwise players prefer Hurricane AA Turret)
Pepperpot - increased damage in 1,3 - 1,5 times (otherwise players prefer Incendiary Mortar)
Command Turret - add the damage, comparable with the average level of technologies (otherwise players prefer not to use)
legion_Lex wrote:pls, add in v3.1.1 aliances - "locked teams, no shared research", he is in v.master, mode is very interesting, there are people that look forward to it.
legion_Lex wrote:Lasers remained weak and outdated weapons on the battlefield.
And need to increase the damage neddle gun, he was very weak
EMP is stuff which have ability to stun enemies.
EMP should be placed earlier in research and gain increased fire-rate.

Command Turret is turred not used to damage enemy units.
Command Turrent should have increased —Āapacity.
Capacity of Command Turret should be unhardcoded and changed to some sensible values for Multiplayer.

Lasers is ANTI PERSONNEL weapons. Lasers should have good damage to cyborgs.
I think most people just dont seeing Lasers as anti-cyborgs weapons.
Main problem of warzone - poor tank design UI, there player cannot gain essential information.

Unfortunately most of these desirable changes will not be implemented in 3.1 because this is not necessary.

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 21 Nov 2013, 12:52
by legion_Lex
Unfortunately most of these desirable changes will not be implemented in 3.1 because this is not necessary.
In general, the balance was slightly better for low-players in the beginning of the game, nothing more changed on sensations.

But aliances - "locked teams, no shared research", it very necessary, it will expand the possibilities of the game, it's exists, just drag it from v.master... :3

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 21 Nov 2013, 13:28
by crab_
legion_Lex wrote: In general, the balance was slightly better for low-players in the beginning of the game, nothing more changed on sensations.
Some people here hate high-oil or med.oil games. They getting crazy if someone tries to include more changes related to high-oil games XD
legion_Lex wrote: But aliances - "locked teams, no shared research", it very necessary, it will expand the possibilities of the game, it's exists, just drag it from v.master... :3
I hope someone from dev team can say how is possible to include 'no shared research' option in 3.1.1 :roll:

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 21 Nov 2013, 17:14
by legion_Lex
Some people here hate high-oil or med.oil games. They getting crazy if someone tries to include more changes related to high-oil games XD
All clear, I'll pass this Russian-speaking fans of the game, because I've seen a lot of people worried about the balance on the late stages of the game, they really believe that someone will hear them. :lol2:

There is a bug in the chat: I write in the chat not only in English but also in Russian translation, if you write a message in Russian language the first letter is entered English... pls fix :stressed:

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 21 Nov 2013, 18:11
by montetank
What`s happend with the SuperTransporter? Can`t take trucks-tanks-cyborgs. Nothing. If i try to move a unit into the transporter-the transporter makes a jump and thats it. The cyborg-transporter is in function but not the big one. :(

Re: 3.1.1 RC2 is now available

Posted: 21 Nov 2013, 18:59
by NoQ
pls fix
Cannot reproduce.