Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 »

Updated to master 81c95fd and started testing beta 4 again. Looks good this time. After I attacked the guarding group of the commander he went back to the NW base, vtol's spawns as expected and stopped spawning after I destroyed the CO HQ. And with a consequent hit and run behavior. Factories are working all the time. Again the known info messages in the logs and a looooong time for reloading a saved game.

I don't know when I will have the time for testing beta 5. We'll see.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg »

-Philosopher- wrote:It's supposed to be saves from before destroying the base in question, just after and at the end of the stage, but the middle one isn't right - looks like it's just before - but you can see the issue in the final save, and one of the other two might be set up enough for you to recreate it (fingers crossed).
Any chance you remember a New Paradigm truck building something close to the scavenger base? From the second save lets explore a possibility. While attacking the scavenger base it is possible after a few seconds that a truck could sneak in near the "entrance" and build a tower. If you do not eliminate that structure before finishing off the scavenger base, then it will not eliminate. Anyway, I think that was it: a sneaky truck decided to build something in the cleanup region.

Checking only for finished structures and then adding any newly built enemy structures into the base group would suffice.
alfred007 wrote: Updated to master 81c95fd and started testing beta 4 again. Looks good this time. After I attacked the guarding group of the commander he went back to the NW base, vtol's spawns as expected and stopped spawning after I destroyed the CO HQ. And with a consequent hit and run behavior. Factories are working all the time. Again the known info messages in the logs and a looooong time for reloading a saved game.

I don't know when I will have the time for testing beta 5. We'll see.
Nice to know Beta 4 works well. Take your time, no need to rush. Lots of factories in Beta 5 so it could be another Alpha 12 situation all over again.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- »

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
-Philosopher- wrote:It's supposed to be saves from before destroying the base in question, just after and at the end of the stage, but the middle one isn't right - looks like it's just before - but you can see the issue in the final save, and one of the other two might be set up enough for you to recreate it (fingers crossed).
Any chance you remember a New Paradigm truck building something close to the scavenger base? From the second save lets explore a possibility. While attacking the scavenger base it is possible after a few seconds that a truck could sneak in near the "entrance" and build a tower. If you do not eliminate that structure before finishing off the scavenger base, then it will not eliminate. Anyway, I think that was it: a sneaky truck decided to build something in the cleanup region.

Checking only for finished structures and then adding any newly built enemy structures into the base group would suffice.
Not convinced about this. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. Conscious of the flank, I'm pretty rigorous about killing off anything that comes around the front from the NP base - either with units or structures put up to guard the flank. I also had a radar out front to keep an eye on what's going on from the second save onwards. I'm certain there weren't any nearby NP structures (part or fully finished) standing when the scav base was eliminated.

However, even if I somehow missed one, it shouldn't have mattered, should it? Surely NP structures shouldn't count towards a scav base (and vice versa) - where ever they're built and no matter to what level of completion? Is it possible to have base clearups filter for structures of the correct owner? I imagine that's the reason why there's two red dots for the intermingled scav/NP base back in Alpha 06.

[Edit]
I managed to find this (glad I keep everything):
Image
It's the screenshot from (more-or-less) the moment the scav base was destroyed. There are no NP structures showing on the mini-map that I later had to circle back to. Not 100% proof of anything, of course, but does add to my scepticism...
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Twister22 »

let's see beta 3
MY_CAM_2_SAV.zip
This contains the beta save
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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-Philosopher- wrote: Not convinced about this. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. Conscious of the flank, I'm pretty rigorous about killing off anything that comes around the front from the NP base - either with units or structures put up to guard the flank. I also had a radar out front to keep an eye on what's going on from the second save onwards. I'm certain there weren't any nearby NP structures (part or fully finished) standing when the scav base was eliminated.

However, even if I somehow missed one, it shouldn't have mattered, should it? Surely NP structures shouldn't count towards a scav base (and vice versa) - where ever they're built and no matter to what level of completion? Is it possible to have base clearups filter for structures of the correct owner? I imagine that's the reason why there's two red dots for the intermingled scav/NP base back in Alpha 06.
Hmm, then I am out of ideas with this one. I will keep trying to recreate this. Trucks building something could cause that scenario for all players so adding it to a base group is essential anyway.
Twister22 wrote:let's see beta 3
What is this for? It appears to be an old unsupported save format.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- »

Testing on Master 3c907bd - 81c95fd (24-Sep-2017)

Alpha 11

Isn’t working.

I don’t fully understand what’s going on, but two things seem to be consistent:
* In jscam the NP units in the valley aren’t picking up the artefact
* Some of the valley team head off up the hill (the route that’s blocked by tank traps at the top) and only come down again to attack my units once the latter reach the valley floor. They shouldn’t go anywhere near that route.

I’ve played this stage through several times (hence multiple masters) and it’s been pretty consistent each time. The only thing that varied is which particular units from the NP valley group get lost up the wrong path up the hill.

They do this whether or not god mode is on, although it’s much easier to see with it on of course. Here the heavy tank has gotten lost while the rest of his group sits stationary:
Image Image Image Image

When my group reached the valley floor, both halves of the group went for them with speed. They seem to have forgotten their mission though - note the green dot still present on the mini-map:
Image
Alpha 11 NP Lost 2.zip
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On another playthrough, it’s the two medium tanks up the hill instead:
Image
Alpha 11 NP Lost 1.zip
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An earlier playthrough before I started looking at it with god mode on:
Image
As with the others, you can see the heavy cannon tech left untouched at the western end of the valley.

My running theory was that my lancer bunker/bombard pit combo in the west was somehow discouraging them from picking up the artefact, but in the first of these examples the NP party never got fired on by any of them before turning to attack my team, so I don’t think that’s it.

Contrast this with wzcam -

These guys are determined to get that artefact. They don’t move as a group either - they all move at their fastest speed - even into the face of determined fire. Any unit that reaches it picks the artefact up:
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
When the unit carrying the artefact is destroyed, they all turn back to pick it up again:
Image Image Image Image

In wzcam, once the valley party have the artefact, they always head back to the NW base via the path that goes via the top of the map. From a play-through where I did nothing to intervene in their actions:
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

The timing of actions in jscam has changed too. In wzcam, the valley group is never on the move before 28:00 (they usually start their run around 27:45), whereas in jscam they’re already well on their way by 28:00. Are these timed actions, or is there some sort of trigger location that sets them in motion?

FYI - their disposition at the start of the stage:
Image Image
(at least that’s the same in both versions...)

On the other hand - some good news - I had it wrong about the tank traps at the top of the hill. They’re correctly treated as part of the scav base in both versions:
Image Image
So my earlier feedback on that can be safely ignored. Apologies for another “cry-wolf”. I think I missed the exact timing of when I killed the NE scav base in some of the earlier play-throughs.

This is another level where the victory conditions have changed. It used to be you could destroy everything on the stage and not have it end until you returned to the LZ.

Because of the bottlenecks at either entrance to the NW NP Base, this is another stage where the lack of a functioning hold feature was a particular issue. e.g...
Image
Here, I don’t want the three damaged units to retreat past the plethora of lancer towers. The moment I stop them however, they want to run in and attack them instead - despite their damaged condition and standing orders - and they’re really determined to do it. I had to, literally, endlessly press the H key with them selected until the other units had achieved their objectives to get them to stop suiciding themselves. Ridiculous. It’s enough of an issue to me that I’m seriously considering abandoning 3.x until this functionality is restored (which will draw my testing contribution to a premature end too, sadly). @Beserk Cyborg, do you have any influence with the people in a position to look at this? Apparently I don’t. No-one is replying to the posts and tickets relating to it.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg »

Those defenses are causing them to go into scout mode, and as such, want to investigate those defenses when the unit gets close to it. I will check if anything could be wrong with the library group tactics, if not it is a source bug. Otherwise they do pick up the artifact if not disturbed.
-Philosopher- wrote: do you have any influence with the people in a position to look at this? Apparently I don’t. No-one is replying to the posts and tickets relating to it.
IDK, send a PM to all of the Project. Bound to get some response eventually. Per, being the most active of the group, however, will not be around until the end of October.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Berserk Cyborg wrote:
-Philosopher- wrote: Not convinced about this. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. Conscious of the flank, I'm pretty rigorous about killing off anything that comes around the front from the NP base - either with units or structures put up to guard the flank. I also had a radar out front to keep an eye on what's going on from the second save onwards. I'm certain there weren't any nearby NP structures (part or fully finished) standing when the scav base was eliminated.

However, even if I somehow missed one, it shouldn't have mattered, should it? Surely NP structures shouldn't count towards a scav base (and vice versa) - where ever they're built and no matter to what level of completion? Is it possible to have base clearups filter for structures of the correct owner? I imagine that's the reason why there's two red dots for the intermingled scav/NP base back in Alpha 06.
Hmm, then I am out of ideas with this one. I will keep trying to recreate this. Trucks building something could cause that scenario for all players so adding it to a base group is essential anyway.
Twister22 wrote:let's see beta 3
What is this for? It appears to be an old unsupported save format.
I had it before i went and upgraded to the creators update
Which now the 1.11 version can't open now :(
which is why i decided to downgrade creators update to the windows 10
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- »

Berserk Cyborg wrote:Those defenses are causing them to go into scout mode, and as such, want to investigate those defenses when the unit gets close to it. I will check if anything could be wrong with the library group tactics, if not it is a source bug.
I'd assumed source bug, but if it does turn out you can do something with it that'd be great. Keep us posted.
Berserk Cyborg wrote:Otherwise they do pick up the artifact if not disturbed.
What counts as disturbing them? I had thought that was the issue - although being attacked certainly doesn't put them off in wzcam - but decided to post about the issue after I had a playthrough where they turned around and left the artefact before anything happened to them.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen »

Alpha 12

Ok so I updated to the latest master
warzone2100-master-20170924-194202-81c95fd.exe (24-Sep-2017)

And I've been having a go to see if I can figure out what is causing the build up glitch on Alpha 12 but I can't seem to isolate a cause, I tried playing with the deity and biffer baker cheats on to make life a little easier but couldn't get the glitch to happen, not sure why maybe the deity cheat lets the computer see everything as well or maybe with the biffer baker cheat on my units are just too strong and I simply smash through there defences to quickly who knows?

Anyway as a consequence I only seem to be able to get it to happen when I play normally which would lead me to conclude that the most likely source for this problem is a reload issue since I find my self reloading this level frequently because a lot of things have to go perfectly or you aren't going to have enough time to complete the level.

Once Again you can see

Image

By the time I have gotten up to there base there is already a build up underway which shouldn’t be happening, so there is defiantly something hinky going on here.

I've attached the save in case its helpful.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Good news is that it was group tactics being wrong for defense orders. Though for some reason not all the droids regroup as closely as before.

I think I know what is happening Bethrezen. Try removing that repair facility and wait. Then the hoard will come alive. I thought they would ignore stuff they can not reach, but apparently not. So I fix that next.

Edit:
So far after a few seconds with your Alpha 12 save, all of those units will hoard together and attack your ground forces. Still testing it.

Alpha 12, Should we change the north trigger to encompass the whole map width? It is the one that activates the LZ and the two northern most factories. The WZScript only had the check stay within the middle pathway and can be bypassed if going full hover.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Alpha 12, Should we change the north trigger to encompass the whole map width? It is the one that activates the LZ and the two northern most factories. The WZScript only had the check stay within the middle pathway and can be bypassed if going full hover.
To be honest I'm in 2 minds about that one.

On the one hand from a purely logical stand point it makes sense because it's possible to do the level without ever triggering the drop zone and I'm not really sure if that was intended or just a mistake.

On the other Alpha 12 is already tedious enough.

I guess we could try it and just see how things play out, because in the grand scheme of things I wouldn’t expect it to make to much difference since they only ever send land based units anyway and as it is you already need to leave at least 1 squad as land based units so you don’t end up facing an armada when you get up to there base so it should be ok.

To be honest what i would really like on alpha 12 right now is a more expedient means of completing it because at the moment every little thing is such a tedious and laborious slog, because you have such limited options on alpha 12.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- »

Berserk Cyborg wrote:Alpha 12, Should we change the north trigger to encompass the whole map width? It is the one that activates the LZ and the two northern most factories. The WZScript only had the check stay within the middle pathway and can be bypassed if going full hover.
The level objective is to kill the HQ (top right). Being able to bypass all those things doesn't prevent you from achieving the objective, so I see no reason to change it.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg »

Ok, it will stay as a land only trigger.

Here is a mod you all can try along with the master builds to test group tactics for Alpha 11/12. Defense groups should no longer get distracted anymore (like the artifact group) and should help with the unit bunching in Alpha 12.
Updated-Campaign.wz
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- »

For anyone else who had to look it up to refresh their memory like I did...

Info on mods: https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/spac ... Filesystem
Command line options: http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/CommandLineOptions

The autoload directory approach worked for me, I believe (the add-on displays top left on the menu/options screen). I presume I should be able to confirm this in the logs somewhere as well though - where do I look for it?

The mod itself didn't appear to work, though (Alpha 11). In my quick look, the valley group started off well, but still got confused part way back after picking up the artefact (you'll note I avoided building anything near them too, just in case). They were heading back east as a group for a bit, then abruptly stopped and one unit took off by itself and headed off the wrong path up the hill again:
Image

IMO this group doesn't need to move as a group. In wzscript all the units move at their natural speed, meaning the faster half-track units inevitably end up picking up the artefact. If they manage to keep it, that means they'll rush to the base up north faster (with the slower, tougher units acting as rearguard); if they don't, the remaining units go back to pick it up if dropped - so as it was, NP had the best of both worlds: speed of the fragile units if they're left unmolested, or the heavy units doing the work if not. Because of their starting position on the map, if the artefact group is intercepted by the player on the valley floor, the fast and slow units have grouped back up again where they usually meet too - so no disadvantage in that way either. (This all depends on the artefact group starting their run at the right time, however. In wzscript it's delayed, whereas currently, in jscript, they appear to set off immediately. Were they to both (1) start immediately and (2) behave as they used to in wzscript I think they'd always beat the player back to the base which would be an issue).
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