Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

[-Philosopher-]

That's a good way of explaining it and I second all of this. Removing these from the game removed a level of sophistication it used to have. I also think they worked better and more people used them than perhaps was understood... but all of this has been covered already in the thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12197. @Beserk Cyborg, don't suppose you know the current state and thinking is on this?

I do not know the exact logic behind it. I think it was because of them not having clear descriptions about what they should do as I believe that is the underlying reason why those three got removed.

What's the current status/thinking - do you know if anything is likely to be done about this?

Beta 04
Can the Commander's exit point be restored to the south end of the road?

Done.

Excellent. I'll give it another try after the next master lands. No rush on that by the way (not on my account anyway) I've got plenty of things I want to check before I run out of things to test. Unless they're level breakers I agree it makes sense to collate a bunch of fixes before pushing another build. Hope this is all helping by the way

I'm also wondering about the timing of events on this level - does the commander make a break for it earlier than he used to? I'd have to look at how it plays out in an old version to be sure, but it seemed that way to me... it felt like there was less time to get set up for his run south than I remember.

I use the original trigger area (long horizontal rectangle seen in debug mode). The commander does take a simplified path to the NW base as otherwise path issue arise from my testing. Usually by the time you enter the trigger the commander can exit the map in ~8 minutes.

Ah. That's a gap in my understanding. I was under the impression it's timed, but actually I'm triggering it. OK - understood. I did notice the long horizontal trigger area and wondered what it was about.

Alpha 11... old version

I also spent some time continuing my parallel campaign in 2.3.8. I noticed a lot of things about Alpha 11 that seem to have gotten lost in the current version. It's all small-detail stuff, but I think the difference to the experience mounts up when they're considered in aggregate.

In the latest examples of such things, I spotted more missing/changed red dots,

there's an incoming intelligence report that cuts in when the NP pick up the HC tech (is that working currently? I don't remember it...), any unit, not just the heavy tank, picks up the HC tech, and if that unit gets destroyed and drops it, another unit will pick it up, etc. (so their differing movement speeds is less of an issue as a result)

and the tank traps blocking the "mountain-top" path to the enemy LZ (the one with the nasty choke point) are actually part of the Scav base to the NE, so when all the scav structures are destroyed those walls blow up with it - suddenly freeing attacking enemy to come via this route:

I do not see missing blips. They activate once the player sees one of the base structures.

That's not always true actually. Sometimes objectives are marked from the start of the stage or as soon as the related video cut scene has announced it e.g. the red dot marking the valley floor in (old) Alpha 11 was visible from the outset (I'll check when I get back up to it, but I think it's missing altogether from new Alpha 11), and (e.g.) the red dot marking the "mysterious power source" in Alpha 02 (cf. the next post I'm about to make) is also visible from the start of the stage.

I used the original cleanup area for the northern scavenger base so I would probably have to move it seeing as there is no way to distinguish walls and tank traps as far as I know.

Hmm. If you copied over the original area faithfully I wouldn't expect you'd have to do that. The only thing special about tank traps and walls is they blow up automatically when the rest of the base is cleared (as I'm sure you know), otherwise, I would expect there to be nothing special about them. Hold off on doing anything with this one until I check it again. It's possible I did something in a different order and made myself think there was a difference where there wasn't one.

Fixed the cleanup coordinates for the NW base in Alpha 12. At the time I did not know where they were so I more or less went in game, clicked on the map, and created new ones.

So you never went in debug mode and can see everything in Beta? What happens if you use the "deity" cheat twice and does everything go back to normal?

Not in the beta stages, but I guess it's possible it was a hangover from an earlier stage. Don't think so so though. Once I got the problem I did try the diety cheat twice, however. It only sort of worked - the fog of war came back correctly, but all the enemy units and structures remained visible on the minimap. I'll keep playing with this in case it's something I did.

[-Philosopher-]

Alpha 02

The Scav base with the sensor tech either isn't defined correctly or isn't cleaning up properly.

Here it is before I ascend the hill and destroy the bunkers and sensor tower in 2.3.8 and 1c1b9c5 master, respectively (so far, so good), the red dot correctly appears when the first buildings heave into view:


After destroying the bunkers just to the north and on the hill, the outcome is different (2.3.8 and 1c1b9c5 master, respectively, again):

[Terminator]

guys why you dont compare a 1.10 original version ?

[Berserk Cyborg]

I believe the Alpha 2 base blip for that one includes the scavenger bunker in the back. Anyway, I moved the cleanup zone farther up so it does not include it. Oh and the new master allows us to change resolution again. Other than that I did not update campaign.

Really do not know what the current status is about orders.

[-Philosopher-]

guys why you dont compare a 1.10 original version ?

Would love to, but don't have it. Do you know where I can get it from?

I was using 2.3.8 only because I (1) had it handy and (2) its version of the campaign is relatively stable. The few bugs that are present in it I'm familiar with and know how to work around.

This was all under the assumption that the 2.3.8 campaign is the old WZScript version, so it was, at least on some level, a valid comparison between the WZScript and JavaScript versions.

If there's a preference or standard as to which version to compare to, I'll, of course, go with that...

[-Philosopher-]

I believe the Alpha 2 base blip for that one includes the scavenger bunker in the back. Anyway, I moved the cleanup zone farther up so it does not include it.

By in the back, do you mean the one south of the hill with the sensor tower in it? That was what I thought the difference was but wasn't sure. Is it easy to compare differences between the cleanup zones between the wzcam and jscam code? Is this something I could do if pointed in the right direction?

Oh and the new master allows us to change resolution again. Other than that I did not update campaign.

Really do not know what the current status is about orders.

Shame it doesn't seem to be getting focus, despite a petition and everything. Don't suppose you know who would be best to talk to about this?

I see the new master 52db941 (19-Sep-2017). I'll update.

[Bethrezen]

@Philosopher RE: Beta 04

You do realise that if you knock out the command centre in the western base on beta 04 that should stop the vtol attacks, because the vtol attacks are coming in from off screen or at least it did on older versions.

Now assuming that vtols on beta 04 are working correctly then destroying the command centre at the western base should stop the vtol attacks on the current version as well.

As for there hover tank killers they are easily dealt with if you use artillery, because there units won't react if they don’t see you and mobile scanners have a longer range of sight then there hover tank killers, and scanners towers have an even longer sight range then mobile scanners do, so it shouldn’t be difficult to get eyes on there hover tank killers and if you have eyes on them then your artillery can take them out now I'll grant this is not exactly the fastest method to deal with this but it is the only method that wont result in massive casualties because obviously as you have no doubt discovered going head to head with a pack of tank killers is a very very bad idea.

That's not always true actually. Sometimes objectives are marked from the start of the stage or as soon as the related video cut scene has announced it e.g. the red dot marking the valley floor in (old) Alpha 11 was visible from the outset (I'll check when I get back up to it, but I think it's missing altogether from new Alpha 11), and (e.g.) the red dot marking the "mysterious power source" in Alpha 02 (cf. the next post I'm about to make) is also visible from the start of the stage.

I think Philosopher might actually be right about this because I have noticed a few of the mission markers that are either missing or not working correctly, I just didn’t say anything because I was looking for more serious problems, and i considered faulty mission markers to be a minor issue as they didn’t seem to effect the game at all and the various levels still seemed to play out correctly regardless.

One example I can think of the top of my head is the new paradigm drop zone on alpha 09 as you can see in this screen shot the flashing red dot that interacts that the drop zone has been triggered is missing.



In this screen shot taken on alpha 08 you can see that despite the fact that i have already activated the second drop zone the mission marker hasn't switched off like it should.



Alpha 03 another mission marker that's not switching off despite the fact that I'm getting the return to LZ massage.

guys why you don't compare a 1.10 original version ?

That’s a grate idea but someone would need to compile a copy of the 1.10 version from the original source and then upload it to http://buildbot.wz2100.net/files/ so that we can access it

I know that someone did something like that from an original CD and then uploaded it to drop box or to google storage or something like and then posted the link on the forum that but i can't find the link now.

Also when i tried that out i ran into problems getting it running, you see because it was crated from an original CD it still contained the DRM on the main executable so it wouldn't run without the CD unless you had a No CD patch how ever none was provided.

So like i said someone would need to compile the original source and then upload it.

[Berserk Cyborg]

By in the back, do you mean the one south of the hill with the sensor tower in it? That was what I thought the difference was but wasn't sure. Is it easy to compare differences between the cleanup zones between the wzcam and jscam code? Is this something I could do if pointed in the right direction?

Yep. Go to the "data" folder and click on the history button and find the regions coordinates https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... ase/script. I did not look if that base had a cleanup as it did not previously in its converted state, so it was a recent addition by me. All JS labels are in https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... a/base/wrf and Alpha 2 is internally "1-B". Also the first conversion was pushed on Oct 11, 2014.

Shame it doesn't seem to be getting focus, despite a petition and everything. Don't suppose you know who would be best to talk to about this?

memberlist.php?mode=group&g=33.

As for there hover tank killers they are easily dealt with if you use artillery, because there units won't react if they don’t see you and mobile scanners have a longer range of sight then there hover tank killers, and scanners towers have an even longer sight range then mobile scanners do, so it shouldn’t be difficult to get eyes on there hover tank killers and if you have eyes on them then your artillery can take them out now I'll grant this is not exactly the fastest method to deal with this but it is the only method that wont result in massive casualties because obviously as you have no doubt discovered going head to head with a pack of tank killers is a very very bad idea.

And those are only lancers. Tank killer (and especially the VTOL weapon) is a scary thought for insane difficulty.

Removing those mission objective blips is a trivial one line fix.

[-Philosopher-]

@Philosopher RE: Beta 04

You do realise that if you knock out the command centre in the western base on beta 04 that should stop the vtol attacks, because the vtol attacks are coming in from off screen or at least it did on older versions.

Now assuming that vtols on beta 04 are working correctly then destroying the command centre at the western base should stop the vtol attacks on the current version as well.

Actually, no, I didn't (and it'd be a good thing to test when I get back to Beta 04, too). It's never come up the way I do Beta 04. With my approach, you don't need to deal with either of the bases on the stage to complete it. I'm not sure having to take those on just to stop the VTOLs is a useful trade-off - it'd mean you'd spend a lot more time on the stage and presumably you're subject to the VTOL waves until that point?

But we're talking tactics here, so getting off-topic...

[-Philosopher-]

By in the back, do you mean the one south of the hill with the sensor tower in it? That was what I thought the difference was but wasn't sure. Is it easy to compare differences between the cleanup zones between the wzcam and jscam code? Is this something I could do if pointed in the right direction?

Yep. Go to the "data" folder and click on the history button and find the regions coordinates https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... ase/script. I did not look if that base had a cleanup as it did not previously in its converted state, so it was a recent addition by me. All JS labels are in https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... a/base/wrf and Alpha 2 is internally "1-B". Also the first conversion was pushed on Oct 11, 2014.

Shame it doesn't seem to be getting focus, despite a petition and everything. Don't suppose you know who would be best to talk to about this?

memberlist.php?mode=group&g=33.

Thanks - some things for my to-do list I'll finish my regression testing - at least for the levels I've already visited to date - first, however. I've probably got time for 1 or 2 per day.

[-Philosopher-]

Alpha 03

I noticed the scavenger units behaved and attacked in very different patterns between wzcam and jscam. The differences add up to making the level easier than it used to be (perhaps a good thing, given the timer changes, which I disagree with, as you know - more on that later), but maybe not what was being aimed for?

The various groups of scavenger units appear to have different triggers and objectives (focus on the mini-maps in these screenshots):

1. Starting Dispositions - much the same, subtle differences in the positioning of two groups only:


2. Less than two minutes in - two groups have repositioned themselves in wzcam; none have moved in jscam:


3. Groups start moving (towards my attacking group, I believe) early on in wzcam; all groups stay put in jscam at this stage:


4. First outcome is being attacked from three directions simultaneously in wzcam at this stage; two only (from the eastern two bays) in jscam:


5. After retrieving the artifact the wzcam groups appear to head towards my attacking units; in jscam they all set out towards the LZ:


6. The end result is being attacked from different directions simultaneously when heading back to the LZ in wzcam versus being attacked mostly from one direction - east of the LZ (blocked off by modest defences in this example):


(test results from prior to updating to 52db941, FYI)

I appreciate the policy (http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/jscam) may to not be concerned about this level of unit behaviour difference, but IMO it makes a material difference to how the level plays out, particularly in combination with the timer changes, so perhaps it’s worth looking at?

Also, the Red Dot in the north doesn’t deactivate when that objective is achieved (as Bethrezen also noted). Here’s how it is in wzcam:


Regarding the timer changes, as you know I’m uncomfortable with what is, in effect, a shortening of the timer for the first away mission (I’m of the opinion the game originally tried to ease the new player into things in the first few missions). How about making it 15mins, reset to 15mins after the 1st cutscene (about researching and applying the power module tech), with no power bonus applied for finishing the first of those early? Would that be straightforward to do? That would make it more in keeping with the original.

[cybersphinx]

That’s a grate idea but someone would need to compile a copy of the 1.10 version from the original source and then upload it to http://buildbot.wz2100.net/files/ so that we can access it

I know that someone did something like that from an original CD and then uploaded it to drop box or to google storage or something like and then posted the link on the forum that but i can't find the link now.

Also when i tried that out i ran into problems getting it running, you see because it was crated from an original CD it still contained the DRM on the main executable so it wouldn't run without the CD unless you had a No CD patch how ever none was provided.

So like i said someone would need to compile the original source and then upload it.

There was a 1.10a compiled from the source with just some limits increased iirc, I don't know where to find it though. It should work with the original CDs, and those are free to copy:

5) Permission is granted to copy and distribute unaltered copies and/or images of the original game discs in any medium, provided that they are distributed free of charge and retain their original copyright and trademark notices.

[-Philosopher-]

Testing on Master 52db941 (19-Sep-2017)

Following up on a couple of fixes...

Ability to change screen resolution from the menus

Looks good, although it has gone back to offering 320x200... much less of an issue than not being able to change it at all, in my mind, however.

Sensor base on Alpha 02

...still doesn't seem to be clearing up completely:

Is it possible I've updated to the latest master incorrectly in some way? I assume you can install new over old?

[Berserk Cyborg]

Is it possible I've updated to the latest master incorrectly in some way? I assume you can install old over new?

Yes, you can install old over new. I did not update campaign with that commit as I do not have anything major to push. I will look at Alpha 3 some more.

[-Philosopher-]

Is it possible I've updated to the latest master incorrectly in some way? I assume you can install old over new?

Yes, you can install old over new. I did not update campaign with that commit as I do not have anything major to push. I will look at Alpha 3 some more.

Ah, OK - understood. Happy to wait. Let me know when I should go back to check these.